Journey to Multifamily Millions

Adding Value through Highly Efficient Management with Steven Weinstock, Ep 98

• Tim

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Today's guest is  Steven Weinstock, he is a Principal with WE Capital. In real estate over 20 years, Steven provides secure, long-term investment opportunities to private investors.

In this episode, Steven shares his 20-year journey in real estate, starting with a single-family home in Trenton, NJ. He discusses his shift to multifamily properties, overcoming the 2008 financial crisis, and using creative financing techniques like seller financing. 

Steven offers insights into his investment strategies, the importance of self-managing properties, and scaling up in markets like Cleveland and Louisville. He emphasizes long-term investment, cash flow, and balancing work with personal time.


Episode Topics

[01:08]  Meet our guest, Steven Weinstock
[01:28] The Early Days: Breaking into Real Estate,Creative Financing, and Scaling Up
[08:58] Surviving the 2008 Financial Crisis
[12:34] Transitioning to Multifamily and Commercial Properties
[17:39] The Importance of Market Selection and Management Strategy
[22:23] Insights on Partnerships and Property Management
[29:48] What is one red flag every investor should look out for?
[30:48] What is a myth about the real estate business?
[34:25] Connecting to Steven 


Notable Quotes

  • "Seller financing became my friend. I tried it with a couple of brokers." -Steven Weinstock
  • "It's all about finding solutions to problems, I think at the end of the day." -Tim Little
  • "The availability of knowledge and networking nowadays is such a huge advantage." -Tim Little
  • "Sometimes the older investors really know how to appreciate the tax benefits."  -Steven Weinstock
  • "I really like to buy turnkey properties and add my aggressive management." -Steven Weinstock
  • "Appreciation is nice to have, it's the icing on top." -Tim Little

 


👉Connect with  Steven Weinstock

👉 Connect with Tim

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/journey-to-multifamily-millions/id1634643497

[00:00:00] Steven Weinstock: I remember, like in oh nine There was a great deal and I was able to put down 50 percent in cash and I still had trouble getting a mortgage And I had the financials It was just a really tough time to get loans on investment properties A lot of banks a lot of lenders were shell shocked but a few years after that, with the advent of these DSCR loans and,stuff like that, it made the financing, get easier.

[00:01:01] Tim Little: Hello, everyone. And welcome to the journey to multifamily millions. I'm your host, founder and CEO of ZANA Investments, Tim Little. And on today's show, we have with us Steven Weinstock. Steven is a principal with WE Capital. In real estate, nearly 20 years, Steven provides secure long term investment opportunities for private investors. Steven, welcome to the show.

[00:01:23] Steven Weinstock: Thank you for having me. Looking forward to this podcast. Sure,

[00:01:26] Tim Little: Yeah, I'm looking forward to our little chat too. So we can definitely talk about WE Capital in a bit, but first I'd like to hear more about How you got started in real estate and how you got to where you are today.

[00:01:39] Steven Weinstock: sure. So I started, a little more than 20 years ago. I purchased a single family home. I'm born and raised in New York City. New York City is a market that is very tough to enter. And, naturally as a young whippersnapper, such as myself, New York was out of reach. did some research back then there, the online research was, not really, out there. I reached out to a few people and friends of friends, different investors, and I settled on Trenton, New Jersey, which is about a 45 minute drive from where I live. things there were easier to get into. And, I purchased my first single family home for 32, 000.

[00:02:20] Tim Little: Okay. And so that first home that you purchased you weren't living in that one. That was purely for investment purposes

[00:02:26] Steven Weinstock: Correct. Correct. I, like I said, I was much younger. I was still living at home with my parents. I still had a job and I purchased this property strictly as an investment property. My original plan was to buy just one property, keep it forever, pay off the mortgage over a 30 year period. And,that would be my, 401k, so to speak. that would be my retirement. When it was time to retire, I figured instead of selling the house I lived in, whichever one I would live in,And downsize, I could sell this investment property, fully paid off and use that for my retirement. That was my initial plan. After about two months of collecting rent, a lot of the numbers started,clicking in my head and,once you're in it, you're in it. And, I figured,Let's go for two, and then two turns into three. And the next thing I was on a buying spree. Back then, financing on these types of properties, when I say these types,one through fours,one unit to four units, they were pretty simple back then. The financing was easy and generous, and I was able to acquire quite a few, my first couple of years. So

[00:03:35] Tim Little: yeah, so let's get into like how you were able to do that because I know a lot of people that they get skeptical because they look at maybe investing in real estate and they get told Alright, you have to have, 25 percent down payment for anything that, is a home you're not going to live in. Was that the case for you or were you able to find some other more creative financing so that you could get it for less money? 

[00:03:58] Steven Weinstock: So on my first deal, again, this is 2001, some of you remember, like I was saying, the financing was a lot easier, you were able to buy some of these properties with,besides the 80, 20 percent down, some of these banks, were allowing you as an investment to put 10 percent down. Some would even do 5%. usually the loans would be more than one loan. There would be an 80 and a 10 and 15. I've seen an 80 tenant or five in order to do 5 percent down. so for this deal, it was a 10 percent down. I put down about three and a half thousand dollars, for the down payment, and paid some money in closing costs. I was in it for less than 5, 000 out of pocket. And, I was a landlord, purchased this property, had a tenant already in there, and I was in the game after that.

[00:04:44] Tim Little: Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people are listening right now and they're getting a tad bit jealous,just hearing that was even possible at one point. but, as we know, it all came crashing down not too many years later, and I don't think we'll ever get back to that.

[00:04:59] Steven Weinstock: Correct. Obviously, like you mentioned,that way of financing ended in late Oh seven, 2008, as most of these loans were over leveraged,the properties were over leveraged. you had a lot of people, borrowing, when they shouldn't be, people walking away from the properties. I self managed these properties. I put my heart and soul into it. I had a pretty good criteria of,what I could buy, what I can't buy. and even shortly after, before this,the crash of, 08, I, pivoted into a lot of creative financing. and the creative financing worked, lots of seller financing, but a lot of seller seconds. I would get a decent, 75 percent LTV loan, and the seller would, carry, let's say 15%. And again, I would put down a small, small deposit and,I was able to purchase quite a few properties that way. and, seller financing became my friend. I tried it with a couple of brokers. a lot of brokers killed the deals. Sometimes they didn't understand it. They didn't have to portray it over to the investor, to the seller. And,I focused on a lot of things for sale by the owners. And, it was a numbers game and I would always present multiple offers, usually with the seller financing component, sometimes with a very low ball, regular offer, in the hopes that it would start the conversation and. I had a lot of deals where the seller had zero inkling of what seller financing was. And after some back and forth and,speaking to attorneys and me offering some attorneys as referrals, offering some other sellers, where I was making monthly payments on some other purchases as references, I was able to, To get a lot of deals that way. And that really was a big boom, even to this day in my seller, in my multifamily career, I still try to get some sort of. involvement into the deals.

[00:06:51] Tim Little: Yeah, it's certainly nice if you can get it. And so I assume back then, like you, with the single family space, at least, you were mostly dealing with distressed sellers? Yeah, was that the case?

[00:07:04] Steven Weinstock: when I first started, I didn't really know what distressed sellers meant. Even to this day,the deals that I got into were sellers who I wouldn't say they were distressed as far as the property was vacant or, behind on rent, or it was just, a lot of older gentlemen. That was like the real bulk of my seller financing. You have these guys who own the property for 25 years, lots of equity, they own a few properties in the area, and they were happy with a higher offer price. They were happy with some sort of tax deferral based on the closing and some of the funds would come over the next couple of years. They really liked that. Sometimes the older investors really know how to appreciate the tax benefits of a seller financing deal. So again, I actually. Tried to stay away from deals that looked distressed from the outside meaning I didn't like to do Renovations, I didn't like to do The fix part of the flip. I really like to buy turnkey properties And add my aggressive management to the mix and try to make it work.

[00:08:07] Tim Little: Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense. And I think it's something for people to remember, right? there's several different types of deals and ways that you can make them happen. There's deals like we, I just talked about like distressed where, you're solving maybe a financial problem for them. something like that. But then there's also where they're, they may, maybe they're not financially in dire straits, but they like the idea of the tax benefits associated with being the financer, or maybe they want that, more reliable income that comes with that. And they don't want to deal with management.  being that, that landlord. So it's all about finding solutions to problems, I think at the end of the day, really. So let's fast forward a little bit. because honestly, we don't have a lot of people on the show who have been investing in real estate in any real capacity prior to 2008. Where were you at,when the crash happened and how did you fare, during that?

[00:09:03] Steven Weinstock: Sure. So the first You know a year or two I focused on single families. then I pivoted really to the two to fours and that was my sweet spot for a real long time. I typically had fixed loans on these, on these deals. I never really got into the variable,the floating rate type of deals, which really affected a lot of people back in, oh, eight with the adjustable, with the adjustable rates. I didn't really have too much trouble as far as 2008 with my properties. I did have a lot of trouble financing new deals. during that process and even after that process and I remember, like in oh nine There was a great deal and I was able to put down 50 percent in cash and I still had trouble getting a mortgage And I had the financials It was just a really tough time to get loans on investment properties A lot of banks a lot of lenders were shell shocked but a few years after that, with the advent of these DSCR loans and,stuff like that, it made the financing, get easier.  but I really focused on the two to fours. probably for a good 10 years or so. After that I pivoted to some larger properties,five units plus eight units, 12 units, some mixed use, retail office, in New Jersey. I dabbled in Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia a little, and really had a bad time there. And, I really did not do well over there. It actually turned me off of real estate for quite some time. and, I remember after getting hurt over there. I put a hold on buying for, I would say about a year and a half. I didn't sell what I had, but it really just turned me off. And,this game is a long game. And, I realized, there was no way to make more money, at least with my skill set, in anything other than, buy and hold, real estate.

[00:10:53] Tim Little: All right. And so with the, once you moved up to the two to four unit, the small multifamily, were you doing most of those deals yourself? Were you doing a joint venture? What did that look like? 

[00:11:03] Steven Weinstock: good question. So here and there I would have partners or investors mostly for the down payment money, to get in. These were always structured in different ways. Sometimes they were structured as partners. really just a hard money with an interest only component and a balloon payment due after a set period of time, but I wouldn't have to share in the equity. Some of them I brought in, some, friends and family over the years have always asked me about real estate. I brought them into the deals. I made some mistakes with the way I structured it. I would offer them too much equity for not a lot of the work. Basically, all the work fell on me.  but, it took me a while, a lot of trial and error to figure out which partners are the good partners and which ways to structure deals. And,when I started, there were no, biggerpockets. com and there was no online resource and it wasn't LinkedIn. And, it was really just some books that I could find, but there wasn't a lot of material out there for me to network with and, to figure out,a lot of my hard knocks come from experience.

[00:12:09] Tim Little: Yeah, no, and you're absolutely right that the availability of knowledge and networking nowadays is such a huge advantage that I think, people are a little bit spoiled. They don't realize what it was like prior to all this stuff being around. So tell me about the switch from, you talked about the evolution from like single family to small multifamily. Yeah, absolutely. At what point did you switch from the small multifamily to the, to five and up what we refer to as commercial multifamily and what were some of the reasons that you decided to make that switch? 

[00:12:45] Steven Weinstock: So the properties that I owned in New Jersey, for, I guess the first part of my career, these were all, self managed, for the most part self owned. It was all me. I was the secret sauce. There was nobody else involved. I didn't have to really deal with anybody,to get into these properties. I did want to scale up. I did want to buy apartments. I didn't know how, and, a lot of networking, a lot of, learning over, this period of time. I took on a partner of mine, a guy who I did some deals with in the past. We work very well together. Our skill sets are literally totally opposites. What he's good at is stuff that I don't have the head for. What I'm good at is things that he would never dream of doing. And we really complimented each other, inmoving forward. And,we, we, Searched out some markets, being from the Northeast, New York City is just a very tough market. New Jersey is great and I love New Jersey, a great appreciation there. but it was hard to get into the larger properties,very expensive. We came across a deal in Cleveland, Ohio, Cleveland suburbs, about seven, eight years ago. And I know the area because I went to high school there. So when I heard this address, I knew exactly where it was and I could picture it in my head and actually hopped over there, took a look at the property. I loved it a lot, and discussed it with this partner or potential partner. And,we decided to create a partnership, reach out to all those people over the years who've always asked me about real estate and, oh, how could I get in or what could I do? I have some money I want to invest, to create a structure for these investors. very defiant, the terms and the roles were, defined, obviously in, contracts and, upfront and, we purchased this property and, after that,full speed ahead and, onto the next.

[00:14:37] Tim Little: Yeah, and that's really interesting. So I'm originally from Jersey and the thing I'm thinking about is property taxes is, was that a big issue there? Cause I know it was like even a long time ago, but I'm still hearing from folks that are in that area. The property taxes in Jersey are pretty, pretty stiff.

[00:14:56] Steven Weinstock: Yeah, no, the property tax in New Jersey is, I believe as a state, it's one of the highest. as an aggregate, one of the highest states in the country. I think Nassau County might be, in Long Island, might be the highest in the country. But as far as the state, yeah, New Jersey is really out of control. I think it has to do with, lots of, Renters and rental property. And,if we could soak the landlords to pay for the public schools, which, I think 80 percent of a property tax goes to fund,let's get it from the investors. but yeah, the property tax was very high. In that respect,on these investment properties, the purchase price had to be, had to fit in line for another investor to make money. yes, but if I were to live there in a primary home, the property tax would be outrageous. but as far as investment property, it's definitely high. But it has to be in line with what another investor can,can take. The answer is yes on a 200, 000 house, the property tax was 12, 000 and the house in Brooklyn that was 900, 000, the property tax was 6, 000. yeah, it's definitely a lot higher over there. but that wasn't, that wasn't the reason I, I,I think at this time you had a lot of Northeast investors, getting sick of New York and making moves elsewhere. obviously Florida, Atlanta, the Carolinas, started picking up with a lot of Northeast investors. and I guess I fancied myself a Northeast investor and I, Looked at a few different markets and when this, deal came through in, Ohio,it's a struck a chord because again,I was familiar with the area, and,it made it, it went to the top of my list, so to speak. And,we took it down, we still own the property. It does great. the Cleveland, Cleveland suburbs, Cleveland area. Cash flows very well. A lot of the Midwest, you do have some good cash flowing properties, sometimes at the expense of appreciation, but they cash flow well and,cash flow is important. different types of investors, different types of buyers. Some people buy for appreciation, but I think that's more of a rich man's game.I'm a blue collar, working class guy and cash flow is very important to me.

[00:17:00] Tim Little: Yeah. Especially when it comes to apartments, right? When you're, it all comes down to the NOI net operating income for people who aren't aware. Cause when it comes right down to it, apartments are a business. you run it like a business, they're valued like a business. So if you don't have cashflow, that's a really bad situation to be in. So if you can find ways to make it more efficient, and increase that cashflow, drive down costs, that's where you make your money. Appreciation is nice to have, it's the icing on top, but that's not how you're gonna make most of your money on those types of deals. So you talked a little bit about Cleveland. and you mentioned that you still own that property. How long have you owned that first commercial property?

[00:17:41] Steven Weinstock: So that one is, about seven years or so, maybe a little more by now. Yeah, we purchased that, in 2017 purchased some other property nearby, within the next couple of months. And then, the following year, I pivoted a little to another market, Louisville, Kentucky. I've owned there the past three or four years. I really liked that market as well. and, I'm doing pretty well over there. And, I would say my focus is Louisville. Now, I really liked the market. It's, great workforce, a blue collar market, a lot of jobs over there, centrally located, in the U S and they just have a lot of. factories and logistics and trucking. And if you remember, every Amazon package comes from Kentucky or at least it used to until they got their own vans on the street. it's just, centrally located within, really about 60 percent of the U S population, it's a two hour flight. You can get to, to Maine, to Florida, to.  Minnesota, West Texas, all within a two hour flight, from there. And,the, these last 10, 15 years with, all this, e commerce and trucking and deliveries, there's just a lot of, blue collar action over there, a lot of jobs. and when we have a vacancy, we'll get, tons of leads,just on Zillow,for these properties. And, we really liked that market.

[00:19:31] Tim Little: No, that's great. And you mentioned a lot of the fundamentals that I'm looking for whenever I'm looking at a market, right? You want to see population growth. You want to see job growth. And then for me, job diversity is a big thing too, that sometimes gets overlooked, right? Cause, you don't want all the jobs to be concentrated in one sector, because if that sector goes away, then so does your entire tenant base. so it sounds like that's a really good market for it, it checks all those blocks. I guess the other thing I was going to ask is, What is your business plan normally with these properties? Because you mentioned having that one for 7 years so far. Are you looking mostly at these like 5 to 7 year business plans, 7 to 10, or is there, are you just holding on to them for as long as you can?

[00:20:23] Steven Weinstock: It's a good question. every time I buy something, and this really goes back to, even 2001 and the smaller properties, I always buy it with the mentality to hold forever. Now, it doesn't always happen. I've sold plenty over the years, I have to fund my, My lavish lifestyle over here. so I've sold plenty. but when I buy the deal, when I get into the deal, it's always with the mindset to, really own it forever. Now, obviously, some deals I have, investors in and, that's a whole different ball game, But I'll try to get,I'll try to, return the investor capital, as soon as possible or as early as possible, whether it's two years or three years into the deal, during the good times, 2018, 2019, sometimes it could be six months. Sometimes you buy a deal and, 2021 and next thing 2022 hits and,you were hoping for three years and it looks like it's going to be four or five years before the investor capital is returned. When I own a property with investors, LP limited partners, I do want to get them their money back. really as soon as possible. I have a lot of, a lot of different types of investors. but I do have a lot of mom and pop investors, people who aren't real estate people. They have a job, they have a business and here and there they have some extra money and they put it into a deal. Maybe they just don't like the stock market or they've been burned by the stock market. Maybe they just like real estate. So I really want to get them their money back. I want them to be able to sleep at night. and even after I returned the capital, they're still owners in the deal. they still have equity in the property. if I could get them their funds back, a lot of times they sleep better at night, everything above that is, is gravy and,I could, rinse and repeat, with that money into another deal and,the best, the best referrals I get are the ones that come after I, return some capital to investors.

[00:22:10] Tim Little: Yeah, of course. That makes a lot of sense. you talked about these different markets that you're in, be it Cleveland, Louisville, and I know you're in a couple other areas, and all of these are obviously outside of New York city. So are you having to partner with Operators so that someone has boots on the ground, keep a close eye on the property. And if so, what is your, your, what do you think is key to a good partnership? What are you looking for? when you work for new partners for the first time? Yeah.

[00:22:46] Steven Weinstock: with the smaller properties,there wasn't a lot of money in the deal. So I was self managing the property. so I really got a real education on just about everything, whether it's, how, what a heater is or. Tenants that have great stories as to why they're late on the rent and really just all kinds of things just to give you a little story the first tenant I ever put in Not one somebody who I inherited but the first tenant I ever put in it was a husband and a wife I put them into the apartment. I think they signed the lease on a Friday. I get a call from the wife on, I don't know, Saturday night, and she says that I think we have to move because my husband got arrested. So I said, oh my, what happened? He says, oh, yeah, he got arrested for arson. So I said, what? What? Where? What? He said, yeah, the last apartment we lived in, he burnt down. And I'm like, oh. And,ironically, she actually stayed with me for a couple of months, even though she told me she would leave. She stayed with me for a couple of months. She paid me rent, for those months. She was like, in a weird way, very kind. honest. And, I'm going to pay, I'm going to pay. And she did. She paid me every month. I told her, no problem. Just give me 60 days notice, tell me when you want to leave. Give me 60 days notice. Let me show it. when,when you tell me you're out and, yeah. So that was a lesson learned with, With management, back then literally on my first deal, it didn't cost me money, but it really taught me how to, not just, read people when I meet them, and I guess do a deep dive on people. but, going back, so I, so I managed these properties. I was, full on, going down there all the time. all kinds of phone calls, all kinds of repairs, all, every kind of issue in the book. When it came to buying multifamily out of state,I wanted to manage these properties myself. And obviously, I live in New York,most of my action is in New Jersey. How am I going to manage this? The bank that was giving me the loan, Wanted me to hire a third party management company. I didn't want to, so I ended up working out with the bank where, basically, they would allow me to self manage. and it was a learning process. Also, here I am, 10, 12 years later. We're longer after owning real estate and, having some,newbie, growing pains, with the long distance management. but,we worked it out. We, we made, we got a super to live in the building, in lieu of partial rents, that was the first step to deal with,that, so called, 2 AM phone call for the toilet. and I hired a full time guy. To manage the property. and, the goal for that was to buy other properties where it would be more cost effective to have this guy, this guy was great. He was a local, he came from a referral. It wasn't just somebody I picked out in the book. It was somebody who used to work for another management company. So we had an idea of what's going on. Obviously, I would be literally on top of him. and I still am, by the way, he's great. And,he's managing more units than he did when he started with me. a lot of my day is spent on management, might be,the wrong approach, because my hourly, rate of earn could be better if I focus on, new investments, but I am, I do self manage these properties,I travel, two, three times a month, sometimes I'm in and out the same day, sometimes I stay overnight. But, between, Ohio and, Kentucky, me and my, and I, like I said, I have a partner, and, we're managing these properties, full time, it is a full time job, don't get me wrong,it's tough, but, I think with the kinds of properties that we own, which is Class C or we Maybe class B minus if it's a good day and the appraiser is a nice guy. There's something to be said about self management mostly for the cost controls. Third party management, I would say, is definitely something good to have on a class A property where the complex was built, 12 years ago and all the tenants are doctors and lawyers, but in,class C, class B minus types of properties where it's a 70s vintage and there's lots of repairs. to be in control of those costs versus a third party management company is key. And I see it when I look at new deals and I purchase new deals, and I see the expenses put on by the third party management company. I know that by self managing, I'll be able to knock off some of those, some of those costs and,sometimes some of the profits or the upfront money that I could make is literally shaving some of those, repair and maintenance,items on the balance sheet. I,you could have a third party, you could have a water heater that's not working and the third party management guy will just, okay, let's get a new one and that's it. Or, sometimes you could have a guy who self manages and will get his handyman out there to try to fix it. I haven't figured out which is the best approach, but,if I could save a few dollars up front by tinkering with it and, or having somebody tinker with it on my behalf, definitely makes me feel better. And,again, I'm giving up some of my time for the cost control, but,that's just, the lane that I'm in, and, for now, that's where I'm going.

[00:28:04] Tim Little: Wow. more power to you. I have self managed on just like a triplex and again, class C. Just a higher level of management required for those tenants, right? They're not as self sufficient. a lot of issues. Some are expected. Some are very strange and random. like you talked about. I've had everything from tenants getting arrested. And unfortunately, they were the only ones that just disappeared one day and I was like, Oh, okay. Now what do I do? and then to bed bees in the bedroom,you can't make half this stuff up, bees set up a hive in a windowsill of their bedroom and you're like, Oh, Okay. so you know, you just handle it, but you never know what to expect. So it keeps it exciting, but not something that I want to do on a day to day basis. So much respect for you being able to, to handle that was some great insight. It's certainly a way to maximize. cost savings, because I will certainly agree and attest to the multitude of just fees that start to pile up once you get into that third party management space. And it really just comes down to the, cliched, no one will take care of that property the way you will. and they'll, yeah, it really just comes down to that. So if you're able to do that, it's certainly the best way to do it. and maximize your money that you've invested in that property. And potentially your investors have invested in that property. all So we do need to transfer to the turbo round now. So I'm going to ask you three questions that I asked every guest on the show. And I just asked for a quick, honest answer. Are you ready?

[00:29:46] Steven Weinstock: go for it.

[00:29:46] Tim Little: All right. First question. What is one red flag every investor should look out for?

[00:29:51] Steven Weinstock: Okay, red flag. Okay, there's more than one, maybe I'll cheat and give you a few, I hope. Okay, I'm afraid of environmental issues. mostly because I don't know about them, and I don't have the headspace to know it and to deal with it. So when I hear, some sort of environmental issue on the property or nearby the property, I try to stay away because I've heard some nightmares in the past. and I just don't want to be limited, whether it's my lender or the choice of lender, because of that. Another red flag is, I visit every property I buy. If I'm afraid to be there myself that day, I will not consider it. And, at night, okay. It's a different story, but if I'm afraid to be there during the day, yeah, I would,I stay away from that.

[00:30:31] Tim Little: No, and I think both those are fair environmental. That's definitely something that could get very expensive, very fast. in your due diligence, when you're going through that buying process, certainly something you want to look for. and then safety. Right now for yourself and for your tenants, that's a huge deal all right second question. What is a myth about this business that you would like to set straight?

[00:30:51] Steven Weinstock: myth about the business. I'd like to set straight. Okay. It's not easy. I know there's a lot of podcasts out there and tick tock out there. And, I really, not that I watch it, but I, my kids have shown it to me and said, Oh damn, why don't you just buy this? And I saw this on Zillow. It's just, it's not an easy business. It's a great business. And if you work at it. you'll do very well. You don't have to be a genius to make money in real estate. the best. The thing for you in real estate is time. Time heals so many mistakes. And, the first, the first five, I've said this before, the first five years of owning a piece of real estate is the toughest, your price is here, your rent is right there, and there's not a lot of wiggle room. And, you're new to it and you're dealing with it. you, you fast forward five years and. your purchase price is still here and your rents hopefully are a little over here and we start making some nice money. you could own it for five, 10 years and you're doing well. real wealth, in my opinion, comes in 15 years plus. So I know we spoke about what my target holds. If you could own a property for 15 years, plus 20 years plus, That's wealth. It's really a game changer. It's money you could pass down to your family. All the big, New York, money, is, building owners that their grandparents have bought, years and years ago, that they bought with some extra money from when they worked in a factory or whatever. And now their grandkids are sitting on the top of the ivory tower. refinancing some deals here and there. And, yeah, so owning it a long time is really where the money is. Yes, there's money in flips, there's money in rehabs, but it's not an easy business, so it's not easy. I would say though, get in always, it's always a good time to buy. I don't believe I'm sitting on the sidelines. Yesterday was the best time to buy, today is the second best time to buy. Buy the deal, make sure it pencils out, and,maybe it'll take a year or two. make sure you can afford it, make sure you could, put down a bigger down payment if you have to. leverage the property less, but it's not an easy business.

[00:32:43] Tim Little: Yeah, definitely time in the market rather than trying to time the market. Just like with the stock market, real estate is not different in that respect, right? The sooner you start investing, the sooner you can capitalize on that time. And I think the other takeaway that I had is you're telling me I can't trust all the financial advice that I hear on TikTok. So I'm going to have to write that one down. All right, last one. What does success look like to you?

[00:33:08] Steven Weinstock: Okay, so this has changed over the years. Originally, when I first got in, success was owning one piece of property and waiting it out for 30 years until it paid off. Over the years, it's changed into, having enough money for myself, having enough money not to have the so-called corporate job. Success for me is to have as much time as I need for my own, I want to say my own, my family. I'm working a lot. I work a lot of hours, but I'm able to not miss my kids' events, or, I'm able to, I'm able to, utilize the time how I want. I spend a lot of hours working, but if I gotta do something, for the family at 11am on a Monday, I could, for the most part, easily take care of it. And, at this point in my life, success to me means, providing for my family, having time for them, and making sure that they could have what they need. nobody's spoiled, but, nobody's, starving either.

[00:34:04] Tim Little: Yeah, exactly that time freedom, that financial freedom and yeah that they're not spoiling. I'm still working on that. I want to make sure my girls don't grow up spoiled. So All right. hey Steven, this has been awesome I really appreciate you coming on and talking to us, especially with your long and storied background Please tell our listeners how they can get a hold of you And if there's anything else you'd like to share with them

[00:34:25] Steven Weinstock: Sure, so Steven Weinstock, WE Capital, website wecapitalx.com. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm pretty active over there. I do have an Instagram. I'm not too active there, although my kids tell me I need to be. we'll try to put some stuff up over there. In general, I'm looking for property, multifamily property in the Louisville, Kentucky, Cleveland suburbs. my buy box is 50 units plus. I am not an institution, so I'm not just buying deals every month. I'm able to pick and choose my deals. and I'm able to bring them to my investors, see what they say about the deal and try to get them on board with the deal. I do spend my days, like I said, managing property, finding new deals, traveling to the property, reaching out to the investors, trying to find new investors, and my highlight is doing a podcast with them.

[00:35:12] Tim Little: There you go. All right, Steven. Hey, thanks again for coming on. We'll definitely have all that information in the show notes, but I appreciate you coming on and look forward to continuing to see you do big things on your journey to multifamily millions.

[00:35:24] Steven Weinstock: Thank you.

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TIM LITTLE (FOUNDER/ CEO)

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