Journey to Multifamily Millions

From Engineer to Real Estate Underwriting Expert with Jason Williams, Ep 117

• Tim • Season 1 • Episode 117

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Welcome to the Journey to Multifamily Millions podcast, where we dive into real estate investing with the pros! 

In this episode, we sit down with Jason Williams, founder of Ironclad Underwriting Mastery and co-founder of The Academy Presents. With a background in engineering, Jason shares how he transitioned from single-family homes to multifamily apartment syndication, inspired by mentor Joe Fairless. 

Jason dives into the creation of his unique underwriting model and shares the key lessons he learned while self-managing properties.

He breaks down the challenges of property management, from handling tenant issues to tackling financial obstacles, and highlights strategies for finding great properties and making smart investments. Jason also explores the role of mentorship in real estate success and discusses how building a thought leadership platform can make a difference.

Plus, he introduces the concept of using self-directed IRAs and 401ks for added investment flexibility, encouraging investors to research and support each other to achieve financial independence.

Episode Topics

[001:29] Meet our guest, Jason Williams 
[03:11] First Real Estate Investments
[13:44] Transition to Syndication and Mentorship
[18:07] Overcoming the First Deal Challenge
[21:22]  Creating a Dynamic Underwriting Model
[26:41] Self-Directed IRAs and 401ks
[30:36] What is one red flag every investor should look out for?
[31:36] What is a myth about the real estate business?
[34:33] Connecting with Jason


Notable Quotes

  • I started creating an underwriting model so that I can start understanding the numbers of an apartment complex. - Jason Williams
  • "I think it takes a special kind of person to be a property manager and I need those people, but I’m not one of them." – Jason Williams
  • "The real estate takes care of itself...Generally speaking, real estate's a good market to invest in." – Tim Little
  • "Most banks, lenders require a 25 percent down payment for an investment property...that's a lot of money, especially with the cost of properties nowadays." – Tim Little
  • "There’s no conservative underwriting...either you're competitive or you're not going to get any deals." – Jason Williams
  • "One of the advantages of doing a podcast is... I get to have smart people on the show, and be seen with experts." – Tim Little
  • "In a 401k, you don’t have a lot of control over what it’s invested in...once you put it into that self-directed IRA, you have a lot more flexibility." – Tim Little




👉Connect with  Jason Williams 




👉 Connect with Tim

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[00:00:00] Dr. Jason Williams: In 2017, I met Joe Fairless, the author of your red book behind you. And he introduced me to apartment syndication and I'm like, I could buy real estate with other people's money. And how cool is that? And I can increase my net worth, increase my cashflow and everything, and still do that. So we joined the mentorship program, learned about apartment syndication.and then from my standpoint I'm, since I'm an engineer, I create systems in Excel. I did that for 15 years as an R and D engineer. I started creating an underwriting model so that I can start understanding the numbers of an apartment complex.

[00:01:19] Tim Little: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the journey to multifamily millions. I'm your host, founder and CEO of ZANA Investments, Tim Little. And on today's show, we have with us Jason Williams. Jason is the founder of the Ironclad Underwriting Mastery Program, co-founder of the Academy Presents, and managing partner of Lauren Capital. With degrees in chemical engineering and a 15 year engineering career, Jason combines analytical precision with real estate acumen, making him a trusted authority in the field. Jason, welcome to the show.

[00:01:52] Dr. Jason Williams: Thanks, Tim.

[00:01:52] Tim Little: It is great to have you. So I am excited to learn a course more about everything from ironclad underwriting to Lauren Capital. But first, please tell us how you got started in real estate and how you got to where you are today.

[00:02:08] Dr. Jason Williams: Yeah, so I grew up with real estate. My parents were investing in real estate. I had to go help mow lawns at my parents houses and apartments and I hated every minute of it. But I did see the benefits it gave them and also learned something critical that you should not self manage and do the work yourself. You can get people to do it for you. And so right off the bat, I knew I was going to invest in real estate and I knew I was going to hire a manager to do it. My wife also grew up in real estate. Her grandparents had lots of houses. They got into it in the, Late 70s early 80s when interest rates were in the double digits and they were still able to make everything work for them So she grew up with that. She saw how They would go to each door knocking for rent every month and she's nope I like the real estate, not going to manage it. So right off the bat, we were in agreement with what we wanted and how we were going to do it. So really that's when we got started. I bought my first house when I was in grad school and, And Lubbock, Texas, when I was going to Texas tech and we knew we were going to rent it whenever I graduated. And so that's really when our real estate journey began. And so, when I graduated, we moved away. We still have that house and it's still occupied and still paying rent. We've reefed or cash out, refide it a few times already. We've been able to get more houses where I currently am, but. It's every time we had to save up enough cash for a down payment in the single family. So it took three, four or five years before we built up equity to refi or build up enough so that we could buy a new one. And then in 2017, I met Joe Fairless, the author of your red book behind you. And he introduced me to apartment syndication and I'm like, I could buy real estate with other people's money. And how cool is that? And I can increase my net worth, increase my cashflow and everything, and still do that. So we joined the mentorship program, learned about apartment syndication.and then from my. standpoint I'm, since I'm an engineer, I create systems in Excel. I did that for 15 years as an R and D engineer. I started creating an underwriting model so that I can start understanding the numbers of an apartment complex. I've had many different models throughout my seven years that we've been doing this and I never found any that I like. So I started creating my own. I started grabbing everybody's model I could find and taking the good parts out of it and putting it into mine, getting rid of all the bad parts. And so mine is constantly evolving now With interest rates, the way they are, you get a lot of creative financing and there's a lot of models out there that can't. Allow for that. So I've, since I wrote mine, I was able to put creative financing options into my model so that I can underwrite realistically and be able to do things like maybe the seller carry back at a certain percentage and maybe a mess or something. there's all sorts of options now you wouldn't even really consider. And so that's really where we've been. Where I am now with my whole, real estate journey, it all started with a single family home. And now I'm into multifamily and I like multifamily now.

[00:05:51] Tim Little: Yeah, that's awesome. And it's not uncommon to start with that single family. But it sounds like you guys are essentially a real estate dynasty, having Been raised with people who were doing it before you, I think it definitely gives you a leg up. you may have said like you said, you hated it, but that's 'cause you were probably doing the worst jobs associated at the time. But at the same time, you were learning a lot. It sounds like from just the exposure, Seeing it, being there, understanding what the benefits were and why they were doing it, and understanding that it was even an option. Yeah. for sure. And yeah, I was doing the worst jobs. I was having to cut grass where the grass was two feet tall and I had just a single push mower on an acre and a half lot. It's yeah, that, that's like the worst thing. You can even try to do it. but my dad was trying to save money because he would just buy a new property and then he wouldn't have enough to like. Do a whole lot to it other than what we would do like our sweat equity. And so he used my sweat equity more than he, he did quite a bit, but then eventually he was able to, get out of it altogether and let his managers run everything. Yeah, and you hit on a pain point that I hear from a lot of single family investors. And, myself included when I had small multifamilies that I tried to self manage. I think you learn a lot while doing it, that very ground level, what it takes to manage a property, which is important to understand for context, right? if you want to be, If you want to manage the manager and understand how those property managers should be effectively running your properties. I think it's always helpful if you've had that experience yourself dealing with tenants directly, dealing with the repairs and the costs associated. So it's not a negative, but certainly something you don't want to do. You want to do it forever, right? And I think a lot of us realize that whether it's some breaking point or just an accumulation of little things over time, we're like, no, I'm done with this. It isn't worth the 10 percent or, 7 percent or whatever it is, that you do have to pay, in terms of the value of your own time. And every person has to decide what the value of their time is, I think.

[00:08:11] Dr. Jason Williams: yeah. And when I was in my engineering job, there were a lot of people, a lot that would buy a house, they would self manage it. And I would tell them, Or tell them what I do and they refuse. It is like 10 percent is too much for them to pay someone else to manage it. And so they would end up getting burnt out and now they don't even invest in real estate. So they didn't, they don't even do it anymore because they got burnt out whenever they tried to do everything on their own. Now I also know people who have 60 to a hundred units, single families who self manage and. And they're quite content. So I think it takes a special kind of person to be a property manager and I need those people, but I'm not one of them.

[00:08:55] Tim Little: Yeah, and sure, it's certainly possible. but you have to be a master of systems and time management and everything else in order to make it happen at that scale. And I give anyone who can do that, massive kudos. But I personally have done it for just like I said, a small triplex. I was like, Nope. After a year or two, I was done. Just the random calls for this, that, and the other. Oh, I have a bee infestation in my bedroom. Like what? What? Like just the weird things that come up that are real stories. one tenant doesn't like the other tenant and they're calling me to Arbitrate you guys are adults. so it's just a lot to deal with. And a lot of it comes down to not only property issues, but people issues.

[00:09:44] Dr. Jason Williams: Yeah. And you call me whenever there's a big old plumbing issue and I have to reroute a sewage line underneath the house. Let me know then if it's not that big, I don't even want to know about it. I don't. and this might sound crass, but I don't want to know really who my residents are, other than like their name and if they pay on time, or if they have any extenuating circumstances, but they're normally okay, I'll help them out, but I don't want to get involved in their personal life, I don't want to know if their dog died and their grandmother's in the hospital or anything like that, it's I'm sorry. I'm maybe I'm too impersonal like that, but

[00:10:24] Tim Little: no, I get it. and so you talked about how you were relatively successful with that. if you were able to refi a couple of times, but again, another pain point that you brought up again, I hear with a lot of the single family side of things is the. saving up enough capital to put down for that down payment, right? Most banks, lenders require a 25 percent down payment for an investment property. Especially if it's in that single family range, one through four units and 25% Can be a lot when you're talking about the cost of properties nowadays. So it's not for me when I bought my first property and I had to save up, like it was like 25, 000 and I was like, Oh man, this is a lot of money. And at the time it was a lot of money for me to save up, imagine a property twice as expensive. Now you're talking 50, 000 so on and so forth. And so you're right. Just the time in between that it takes to save up that capital, especially if the properties that you have are only kicking off a hundred, 200 a month in cashflow, hopefully, God forbid you, you have something break. And then all of a sudden that cashflow just disappeared in the blink of an eye, but that was my experience. And so I can, I definitely resonate with that pain point as well.

[00:11:45] Dr. Jason Williams: yeah, that's exactly what it was. We were lucky if we were able to do it that way. And if you go through the conventional mortgage route, I got a loan from my parents for a down payment because I got a house that I really want to get. And so they wired 25, 000 to me and I was going to use that as a down payment. Now all of a sudden the bank wants to see their financial records or it has to sit in my bank account for 60 days before and they call it seasoning before I could even use it. It's so the hoops they make you go through are crazy. So then I discovered I can buy single families through my commercial lender. Yeah, my interest rates might be a little higher. But the timing I can get, I can close within a whole lot less time. I can put money in my account from my parents, loaning me or whatever, and not have to season it or anything like that.and they do desktop valuations of everything. So I don't have to pay for a full appraisal. when I discovered that I'm not going to do another one. The ease of it is there. And last, the last time I bought a single family, this was, is right when I was starting to get into multifamily, but still in the single family realm, we are able to buy a portfolio. We refied cash out, refied another property, and we walked away from closing with 18, 000. Sort of. when I was there, they're like, all right, you owe us 18, 000. I'm like, no, you owe me 18, 000. And the title company is no, that's not how this works. And then they had a senior person there. It says, oh yeah, we do owe you 18, 000. You'll be getting a check in the mail. You expect me to come with a check, but you don't provide me a check whenever I'm closing out, how does that work?

[00:13:32] Tim Little: And yeah, that we got 18, 000 in the mail eventually, but it was pretty cool that we didn't have to go out of pocket for that last, closing and we got some additional. Capital that we could deploy elsewhere. Yeah. That's always awesome. When you can get money at the table. So talk to me about that transition to the syndication, the commercial multifamily side of things. What did, how did you start out? Did you start out as a limited partner to get your feet wet, or did you jump right in, and start doing syndications?

[00:14:04] Dr. Jason Williams: so we signed on with our mentor, 2018, 2019, something like that. We joined one program and we floundered in it. They were like wholesaling apartments, but the guide who's doing it taught our mentor and our mentor was very successful. So I figured if he created him, he can, we can do the same for us. But no, we floundered in it for about a year and a half. So then we joined our mentor, and haven't looked back. We did not buy our first property until 2021 as a syndication. So I did invest as an LP and some, just so I can see what to expect as an LP. So I can treat my investors the same way. So I get the reports, they want all the communication. I need to set up the platforms, the portals, stuff like that. Just so I can see. What they're doing and how do I mimic it? and the thing with this industry is, yeah, people think that's competition, but I don't think it's competitions. Like I invest in my market, you invest in your market. If those two intersect, guess what? We can work together and buy a bigger property working together. there's really no direct competition per se. I don't see it as a bad thing to work with other investors in that regard. but then we had a broker send my wife a text or one of the texting platforms saying, Hey, this property in your area is for sale. And so we got a tour of it. We, and this was in 2021, summer, 2021. So every. You have to have hard money down. You have to comp, so competition is high. a lot of people are going to be bidding on it. So you have to pull out all the stops to try and win it over. And we ended up. Getting it. And that was three years into our mentorship program. So what we ended up doing was our mentors, like you need to create a thought leadership platform. So my wife has a podcast, she has the Academy presents thought leaderships, and she's doing all this stuff that's putting our name out there. We didn't even have a deal yet. And we were. Getting them learning, meeting all these big people in the industry, getting there on the podcast and everything else. Again, we hadn't had a deal yet. And then when we did get our first deal, she was able to raise a million dollars right off the bat, like no.Never raised before or anything. It was for our own deal and to raise a million dollars. So I thought that was a fluke for next year. We bought our second property. We're averaging about one property a year. I want to increase it, but that's what we're doing. and then again, raised over a million dollars. the way our mentor. Taught us that we are working. It's slow from the beginning, but it is working and that's where we are now. We have two big complexes that we did syndications in. I'm in maybe 10 syndications or so as LP's. When I got there, I left my W2 job on July 22. So I had my 401k, I rolled it over into a self directed 401k. And then I just started investing in other people's deals and then they'd invest in my deals. There's a lot of reciprocation going on that way. So I feel more comfortable pulling it out of the market and putting it into real estate then, cause I wasn't going to manage it. I was gonna, I'll let.

[00:17:40] Tim Little: The real estate takes care of itself. Generally speaking, real estate's a good market to invest in. Yeah. Okay. You covered a lot of ground there. and a couple of points that I want to reiterate that you brought up. you said you, you took your time right before you got that first property. And I think that's important, but I think the results speak for themselves. If you guys were able to raise a million dollars on your first raise, that's amazing and not something that I see very often. So clearly, Yeah. you guys put in the groundwork in order to get your name out there, and your reputation. and I think a lot of people who are looking at this business syndication specifically, and they're thinking about doing that themselves, they wonder how do they get legitimacy without having that first deal.And so they start to think of it as this chicken or egg kind of situation, like who would invest with me if I've never done a deal before, but then they hear a story like yours. And I'm sure they're just like, how did they do that? So how did you do that? How did you get over that, argument, that fear that investors might have with you not having done a deal before. 

[00:19:23] Dr. Jason Williams: So it's all about that thought leadership platform. a lot of it is outlined in that best ever book right above your head. almost follow it to the T I've actually known people who have. Followed it to the tee because they couldn't afford a mentorship program and they were successful so long as you went through the steps. but yeah, just get your face out there even with you. so you have a podcast. Now you're the expert. You might not know anything, but you bring on experts. And so that positions you to be an expert as well. So people are going to be looking up to you. If they listen to you a lot, it feels like they already know you before you even know who they are. And so that is one of the biggest things that we've learned is put yourself out there, let people see you. Yeah, you're not going to resonate with everybody, but you are going to resonate with a bunch. And if you tell your story, people want to listen. And also lets people know that they're not alone. My story is different from his. It's if you listen to them, you might actually have pretty common stories or know somebody who does so, that helps resonate with people. And then when you can resonate with people, then you start to, to begin to like them and trust them and you have that whole no and trust funnel thing, so get yourself out there and get people to know you and resonate with you and then everything else will follow.

[00:20:44] Tim Little: Yeah. And I'm sure your wife, Angel, could attest to this. the, one of the advantages of doing a podcast is not only do I get to have smart people like you on the show, and be seen with experts, but at the same time, I'm always learning things too, right? Cause I'm getting different people. I'm getting people from different aspects of real estate, whether it's the lawyers, the CPAs, the passive investors or the syndicators, they're coming at it with different perspectives. They're bringing different knowledge to the table. And I get to siphon off. Some of that knowledge by self as I'm sharing it with the people who are listening. yeah, it's a huge benefit from that respect. one of the other things that I wanted to talk about,you talked about a lot about your underwriting model and I think you're in a better position than most as an engineer, right? Understanding numbers,to build that out. and you did what I've heard other people have done. They basically take everything they can get and then. find the things that they like about some models, but look for those gaps. what information isn't this giving me, or what is this not able to calculate? And it sounds like you made a model that works for the, for you, for the information that you were looking for. But it's also dynamic, right? it's able to adjust to changing conditions in the market. and do those calculations as well, which obviously makes it very useful for you when you're doing your underwriting.

[00:22:09] Dr. Jason Williams: Yeah, so having the benefit of creating my own model, I pretty much know what every cell does or is supposed to do. So I can go in and change my formulas so that it is dynamic. It does change with the market and the environment.it also changes with Class. I've tailored my model, which is started out as for multifamily. I've tailored it for mobile home communities, self storage,working on getting the hotel version, but I've also created a RV park. I can create all of those and like the main engine of my model is the same, so I don't have to keep reinventing the wheel each time. It's just how the inputs come in differently in the income streams, but for the most part, a lot of it is the same. I'm also doing it for like ground up construction where you're not going to have a T 12 and a rent roll to go off of because there's no property there yet. So how do you do that? Because if you just go off of somebody. Multifamily models, like you're not going to ever find a deal because you can't get the numbers you need or whatever. And so it's hard. So you have to have specific models or a model that can adapt to whatever you're investing in. So that's what I've created.

[00:23:34] Tim Little: Yeah. And that makes sense. And so I guess I'm wondering, because the market has changed a lot in the past, say a year and a half, what. What of your underwriting assumptions have changed during that time? Whether it's rent escalation or cap rates or anything else, really, what of your assumptions have changed in the past, say, year?

[00:23:58] Dr. Jason Williams: So my assumptions when the market was doing really well. I still use lower assumptions, like 3 percent rent growth per year, sometimes four dependent on the market. When I'd help people with their underwriting, it could be it's, I generally try to keep it like three or four. If there's something that goes above that, I would at least flag it so that you would know, but lately now I'm. And my own deals, I'm doing 0 percent for year one and one and year two, and then slowly tapering it up to say three or four back to where we were a few years ago. So that is one thing that I've been doing on my own deals, because I know my market versus when I help somebody, I at least let them know, Hey, this is what's going on. You might want to do some research. As far as the models are concerned, this is what I'm doing and the assumptions I'm making. cause you always hear people say that their underwriting is conservative. and all honesty, there's no conservative underwriting, either. You're competitive or you're not going to get any deals. And unless The seller, or you get it in somewhere where they're not going to even put it on the market or not look at other people's deals,then, you're conservative numbers are not going to win deals. And that's just the truth of it.there is some certainty of close if they know you're going to close, then. The seller might go at a lower purchase price or something than somebody who offered them like 5 million more than what they're asking for. But really it's all about risk tolerance, for you and for your investors. And so that. When I always think it's funny when I and people say conservative and I sometimes say conservative just because that's what people expect to hear. But it's all about risk tolerance. So

[00:25:55] Tim Little: Yeah. And that's, I think, what a lot of investors Want to hear because they feel like the risk is lower if you say that it's conservative But if you're gonna say that then you have to show them what about your? Assumptions your numbers are conservative. Okay. whereas, one guy may be assuming You know, this cap rate, I'm assuming this cap rate, so that they at least understand what about it is conservative instead of you're just using it as a buzzword, because it often is right. So I think that education is a huge part of what we do, when we're explaining things to investors, not just using the right language, but explaining the why behind it. The other thing that I wanted to just highlight because you threw it out there and I know a lot of people may not be familiar with it is you said you rolled over your 401k into a self directed IRA. First of all, congratulations on getting out of your job and rolling that over. but I want people to understand what that actually means. 401k, most people are pretty familiar. With that, right? Don't have a whole lot of control over what it's invested in, et cetera. a couple of funds maybe you can choose from, but once you put it into that self directed IRA, then you have a lot more flexibility in terms of what you can invest it in. And just one example of that. Is real estate. if you want to put it in, crypto or whatever, I don't recommend it. You're more than welcome to, but deals like this real estate is one option. And that's something I've done as well with one of those orphaned 401ks that I had from a previous job, right? It was just sitting there. I wasn't even contributing to it anymore and it wasn't really doing much. It wasn't hurting me, but I was like, why don't I get control of that money? And so I was able to do that. And I did the same thing you did, right? I put it into a syndication so that I could see it grow faster. And with something that I had much more confidence and understanding in than say the stock market.

[00:28:05] Dr. Jason Williams: yes. There are self directed IRAs and I have mine in a self directed 401k. The main difference is I don't have to go through a custodian to get my own money to invest it. I can basically have my own checkbook and I write it to a syndication.but one thing about syndications and retirements is legally speaking, you're not allowed to invest in your own deals. You have to be like an arm's distance apart from it. So I can't control any of it.when it comes to syndication. When it comes to buying single family houses, I think I can do it that way. I don't know all the nuances or the laws regarding that. And,I've talked with a lot of people from quest and some other self directed 401k companies and they say. For like single families, you can, it doesn't have to be an arms distance, but for a syndication, which is more or less an sec security. And I think that's why it has to be an arms distance.that, so whenever I invest in somebody else's deal, there's like reciprocation going on. They can invest in mine with their 401k. I can invest with them, with that, with mine. And so it helps everybody. and the way I see it is a rising tide. raises all the ships. So if I can help you and you can help me, then we're both better off. And again, I don't want to have to manage stocks or mutual funds or anything like that. Cause that, that could be another. Day job, just doing that by itself. So

[00:29:40] Tim Little: yeah, I don't need that kind of stress. I'm happy to get an investor update once a month, see what my money is doing, and make sure that deal is going okay. Asking any questions that I want to ask about that deal. it's, there's just a different level of freedom and control. I feel and I'm like you, I have a Solo 401k and there are distinctions between self directed IRAs and solo 401ks. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole because it can get very nuanced. and none of this is tax advice, by the way,

yeah, I'm not a tax advisor, not a lawyer, not an accountant. I'm just a guy who's doing it and somehow making it work. Yeah, exactly. all So we do have to transition to the turbo round now. So I'm going to ask you three questions that I asked Every guest that's on the show and I just asked for a quick, honest answer. Are you ready to go?

[00:30:33] Dr. Jason Williams: yes,

[00:30:34] Tim Little: All right, let's do it. Jason. So first one, what is one red flag every investor should look out for?

[00:30:40] Dr. Jason Williams: every investor should. So I always get this, what's the riskiest investment? The risk investment for me is one that I know nothing about. So if you want to invest in stocks, you better know about those stocks. If you want to invest in real estate, learn about real estate. If you want to invest in syndication, learn about real estate, learn about. The operators who you're investing with, if you want to invest in oil and gas, learn about oil and gas. So one red flag is investing blindly and not knowing what's going to happen and hoping for the best. So I know a lot of people who do that and there's better strategies than that.

[00:31:21] Tim Little: agreed. And my philosophy is I try to learn enough about the asset to ask intelligent questions. Cause if I can't even ask the right questions, then I probably don't know enough to be investing in it. All Okay. Next one. What is a myth about this business that you would like to set straight?

[00:31:40] Dr. Jason Williams: We have a running gag and one of our property meetings that we meet every week is like, Oh, you're going to get rich in real estate. You can get rich in real estate. It also requires time and it requires sweat equity. And so it's one, it's not a get rich quick scheme. I think some people think it is, and then realize it's not, and then get out and then chase another shiny object. But no,it's not. It is a long haul game and it's viable, but you have to put in the work and you have to do it and you have to be consistent with it and it will pay off, but it's not quick, not get rich quick. It's not going to happen overnight. If you see someone who got rich overnight, you haven't seen the last 10 years they put into it to build up to that. So

[00:32:26] Tim Little: Yeah, absolutely true. And I think a lot of people have learned over the past couple of years that it's not risk free either, for a time people thought like you, you couldn't lose in real estate and it was impossible to lose money. it's, And while, in every PPM it says, like all the risks associated, you could lose everything in this deal. for a time it was like, yeah, you'll read the PPM. It'll say all the dangers involved, just ignore that. it's just to scare you and let you know that it's possible, but it's not going to happen. and it's happening in some instances right now, based on the last year or

[00:33:03] Dr. Jason Williams: yeah, I know one operator who had lost over a hundred million dollars of investor money. 100 million going to zero that is scary and that's eye opening. And no, it is not risk free if there's plenty of risk and that's why you have to do your research on the operator because yeah, a few years ago, everybody was going to make money, but. Nobody can predict the inflation we've been having and the interest rates going up and debt service doubling and tripling. And all of a sudden you can't make debt service because it went from 20, 000 a month to 80,000 a month just to pay the mortgage on it. and that happened, but just like that, so

[00:33:48] Tim Little: Yeah, it's crazy. All right. and last question, what does success look like to you?

[00:33:53] Dr. Jason Williams: I'm still working on that. I, ideally, want my success is I want. I want time freedom, I want financial freedom, vocation freedom, and relationship freedom. I want to be able to hang out with who I want to hang out with, where I want to hang out, and not have to worry about the money. So once I get all of those.

[00:34:14] Tim Little: I will probably not even think I've been successful. I'm still working on it because I always want more, but it's like they say, it suggests a journey. It's not a destination. Absolutely. All right. This has been awesome, Jason. I appreciate you coming on the show. Please tell our listeners how they can get ahold of you. And if there's anything else you'd like to share with them.

[00:34:33] Dr. Jason Williams: so if you're interested in learning more about underwriting or, and. At the time of this recording, I am working on getting a lot of free resources up on my website, which is ironcladunderwriting.com, where you can go and you can download whatever you want, a lot of PDFs on the ins and outs of underwriting. You can go there, you can set up a time with me if you want to learn more. Up on our zoom call, we can discuss it. I have an underwriting course that you may or may not be interested in. If you want to learn even more and expand your underwriting skills. This is not just for operators. I've taught LPs as well so that they can vet deals better versus, because if you don't know how to bet a deal, then how are you going to know if you're. You're investing in something good and that all that goes back to do the research for your investment.you can also find me on LinkedIn. I think it's Jason Williams. PhD is my name on LinkedIn and I'll get all the, my links and everything over to you so that you can post them in your show notes and everything like that as well. So

[00:35:40] Tim Little: All right. yeah, we'll definitely have all that information in the show notes. I appreciate you coming on, Jason, and I look forward to continuing to see you do big things on your journey to multifamily millions.

[00:35:50] Dr. Jason Williams: thank you.

 


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TIM LITTLE (FOUNDER/ CEO)

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