Journey to Multifamily Millions

Breaking Down the Investing Advantages of Built-to-Rent with Ryan Watts, Ep 118

• Tim • Season 1 • Episode 118

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Welcome to the Journey to Multifamily Millions podcast, where we speak with professionals on financial topics!

Ryan Watts, a co-founder and managing partner of Red River Development, specializing in build-to-rent real estate investments. At Red River, Ryan focuses on land acquisition, deal structuring, and corporate strategy. Under his leadership, the company has grown to manage about 1,500 units with $480 million in assets across five BTR communities.

Ryan shares his extensive journey from oil and gas to real estate, focusing on the growing asset class of build-to-rent communities. Discover the unique market opportunities, the benefits of a vertically integrated property management model, and insights into Red River's strategic site selection. 

Tune in to learn about how Red River Development is revolutionizing rental housing with their class A build-to-rent communities.


Episode Topics

[01:20]  Meet our guest, Ryan Watts
[03:28]  From Oil and Gas to Real Estate: Ryan's Journey
[11:29] The Build-to-Rent Model Explained
[15:22] Property Management and Market Strategy
[21:10] Investment Phases and Risk Mitigation
[27:58] The Future of Housing and Market Trends
[28:52] What is one red flag every investor should look out for?
[29:29] What is a myth about the real estate business?
[31:13] Connecting with Ryan


Notable Quotes

  • “Real estate capital markets are deeper, with a larger pool of private equity funds.” – Ryan Watts
  • “Raising capital can be one of the most challenging aspects of this business for sponsors and syndicators.” – Tim Little
  • “Passively investing in these types of deals lets you build scale without the time commitment.” – Tim Little
  • "We've been able to offer our investors a class A, build-to-rent project, which a lot of folks maybe haven’t had exposure to." – Ryan Watts
  • "Prior to breaking ground, we’ve acquired the land, completed entitlements, and secured a guaranteed max price contract to control costs." – Ryan Watts



👉Connect with  Ryan Watts



👉 Connect with Tim

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[00:00:00] Ryan Watts: We're typically the only game in town, when it comes to this specific kind of cottage style, horizontal multifamily style community, that's amenitized in the way that I shared earlier. Now we'll continue to look at it and as this market develops and gets steeper, we'll watch that more closely, but the supply side has been a little bit less of an issue and new home supply. Look, there's not a lot of newly built rental home communities, in the markets that we're in and the whole, the housing stock now, a lot of these communities that we're in, we're, we're it's four or 500,000 to buy a new house.  

[00:01:09] Tim Little: Hello everyone and welcome to the journey to multifamily millions. I'm your host, founder and CEO of ZANA Investments, Tim Little. And on today's show we have with us Ryan Watts. Ryan is a co-founder and managing partner of Red River Development, specializing in bill to rent real estate investments. At Red River, Ryan focuses on land acquisition, deal structuring, and corporate strategy. Under his leadership, the company has grown to manage about 1, 500 units with over 480 million in assets across five build to rent communities. Ryan, welcome to the show.

[00:01:43] Ryan Watts: Thanks, Tim. Good to be with you.

[00:01:45] Tim Little: Yeah, and it is great to have you. I'm glad we were able to finally make this happen. I had to evacuate twice due to hurricanes which messed up the schedule a little bit but here we are so i'm excited to learn more about red river and your unique oil and gas background Which we didn't talk about up front But please first tell us about how you got started in real estate and how you got to where you are today

[00:02:08] Ryan Watts: Yeah, sure. I co-founded Red River Development in 2020 and I did that alongside two other partners. One of my partners is a guy named Jay Dempsey. Jay has a background in senior living, and built a large senior living business called Civitas Senior Living. They still have 38 senior living communities that they operate and manage and You know has done a lot of ground up development with that business nearly a billion dollars in ground up development and My other partner in this company is Steven watts. So Steven also has the same last name as my brother and so Steven has a background in construction and project management and multifamily development. And so Back in 2018, 2019, Jay and I were investing in some of Stephen's deals, and back in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where we all grew up. And, we were talking about building rent as an asset class and talking about the fact that we thought there was a lot of opportunity in that asset class. And ultimately said, Hey, let's build a business, around built investing, build a rent. And so I, I sold a company in 2020, you mentioned, my prior background in oil and gas. So I sold my lawn gas assets and then said, Hey, look, and then we're sitting around in COVID, with a lot of time on our hands and said, Hey, look, this is something that we really want to do. So we locked arms, founded Red River Development and, yeah, fast forward to today, about 1500 units under management, about 480 million IUM. It's been a fun business to build and, one that,we're having a lot of fun continuing to, to grow.

[00:03:28] Tim Little: Awesome, and you did the zero to a hundred right there Tell me a little more about your background in You Oil and gas before we move on to the real estate side of things. And if. If anything, what were some of the benefits from that experience that carried over when you came into real estate?

[00:03:47] Ryan Watts: Yeah, sure. Sure. So I graduated from your university, Oklahoma with an energy management degree. I went to work for a public company in Oklahoma city called Chesapeake energy. still a big natural gas producer primarily. and, but I always wanted to be new. I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I had an opportunity to help launch a company back in 2006. And our first strategy business model was really to aggregate Barnett Shale leases, which was, is a big natural gas field in and around Fort Worth. And so we would package those up and sell them off to Barnett Shale operators that wanted to go drill, drill for natural gas. And, that was a good, good business that had a good run. We pivoted and shifted to acquiring oil and gas royalties. initially on our own account. And then we raised some private partnerships to do that and ultimately raised some institutional capital to do that. So that was for about 2010 to 2020. And then that's that, those are the assets I mentioned I sold, in, in, in 2020, which kind of freed me up to focus my time and energy on this business. but in terms of, the. Skill sets that served me today from that, there, I would say there's numerous,just being an entrepreneur, starting a business, managing people, building teams, all of those things, I think carry over, capital, raise a lot of capital in that business. initially raising small private partnerships with just high net worth investors, and then. more institutional capital. So I think, being comfortable, raising capital as part of it. And then, I was fortunate to have really good partners, the guys that I mentioned that helped me, co-founded this business. And so I've been able to lean on a lot of their expertise and background, when it comes to the real estate specific stuff. So it's been fun to flex different muscles and to learn,learning a new industry and,it's been a fun business.

[00:05:33] Tim Little: Awesome. And I'm curious, raising capital can be one of the most challenging aspects of this business, for the sponsors, syndicators, whatever you want to call them. And so I'm curious. If there were differences in the types of investors that you were raising from On you know the oil and gas side And then when you came over and if you had to adjust in any way in terms of you know How you communicated to those different types of investors?

[00:06:00] Ryan Watts: I would say broadly speaking, if you were to compare the two, two worlds, or the two industries, oil and gas and real estate, it's a much shallower pool of capital for oil and gas. Oil and gas can be pretty technical. And there are certain guys that are comfortable with that, but then there's a lot of investors that just say, look, we don't do oil and gas. We're not. Yeah. So I'd say the real estate capital markets are deeper. People more intuitively understand real estate. when it comes to real estate, private equity funds, there's certainly a lot more of those than you've got, oil and gas, private equity funds or even individual investors and family offices, like a lot of those guys. there's a lot more of a middle invested real estate than there will be in oil and gas. And I think I would say the same is true for RA firms. We have a number of raw investors, so it's, generally speaking, deeper. The deal structures are actually fairly similar. a lot of carry over from that sense, but, and then you're certainly, overall, you're still trying to communicate an investment strategy, communicate to guys, how are you going to generate returns? What's your kind of, what's your secret sauce? What do you do? all those things carry over in a lot of ways.

[00:07:07] Tim Little: Yeah, that makes sense And you talked about how your brother was on this different path. He was doing construction, was he getting involved with real estate investments at the same time or was he purely doing the construction side of things.

[00:07:20] Ryan Watts: so he worked initially for a project management firm and then later joined a Tulsa based construction company and real estate developer. And so he was basically managing development for that firm. on behalf of that firm, in the role he was in. And then later he started, he started, another firm, and partnered with a guy that firms called Rose Rock and Steven and his partners in that business. Did a number of different real estate developments. And so that was his background. He transitioned from you know the construction side and the Really, you know learning the development business at another Developer at another development firm and then ultimately got off on his own and then when we connected In 2020, we'd always talked about doing the business together and really the stars just aligned for us to partner up and, and build this business.

[00:08:15] Tim Little: Yeah, that's awesome. Cause obviously a lot of complementary skill sets there when you're bringing them together to form a red river. and to that point, when you guys started that in 2020, had you done any say even like passive investing? In these types of deals in the past or did you just jump right into doing it yourself?

[00:08:38] Ryan Watts: Yeah. jumping all the way back to when I was buying rental properties when I was in college and I would manage those myself. so I did the small time kind of landlord stuff. and I enjoyed that. it was, I didn't really have as much capacity once I got going in the oil and gas business. I didn't really have the capacity to do it. And I hired a third party property management firm and I wasn't really focused on building a rental property portfolio or something like that. Obviously we're building a different kind of portfolio and developing different kinds of assets now. which I, from a scale standpoint, I think it works a lot better just being able to have onsite property management and onsite leasing and those kinds of things. I think there's some challenges to doing individual scattered site rental homes, that certainly I experienced. and then we were, as I mentioned, Jay and I were investing passively in some of Stephen's deals that were multifamily focused,some value adds, some historic redevelopment, basically new construction of some historic properties. So that was the lead up prior to forming Red River.

[00:09:38] Tim Little: Yeah, and I think that's important to note because I mean in a sense you're servicing investors. That was much like you were at a certain point, right? I know so many people who , once they get a decent job, have some additional income. They know they should be investing in real estate But the only way they know how to do that is, either someone told him to buy some reets or they buy a single family rental or, maybe a duplex, triplex, whatever. but then they don't have the time available to, to commit to it. And so they're like, how can I do this? But, not having it be so time intensive and the lack of scale and everything else. And so that's where. Passively investing in these types of deals comes into play. You discover that now you're passing that opportunity on to others.

[00:10:29] Ryan Watts: Yeah, absolutely. I saw that firsthand. it's just, it's hard to manage properties yourself. And the trick is, Hey, if you do that, you're able to generate better returns, but you're trading time and, ultimately it's a hard business to, to scale, the individual realm of properties. yeah, that's the nice thing here. And I think what we've been able to offer to a lot of our investors is, Hey, participate in a class, a, build to rent project, which a lot of folks, maybe haven't had exposure to. Because a lot of those opportunities have historically gone to more institutional guys, but, it's a great way to get exposure to real estate, to invest in a growing asset class that has a lot of tailwinds. But yeah, you're not having to deal with maintenance calls,fixed toilets and all of the headaches that come along with being a resident, small residential landlord.

[00:11:20] Tim Little: Yeah, absolutely. And then, people do discover syndication at some point, a lot of times, whether it's through listening to a podcast like this or reading a book or whatever. and I think a lot of people are familiar with that, but you brought up the point that maybe they're not as familiar with Bill to rent. What does that education arc look like when you're talking to an investor who is maybe passively invested in one or two, more traditional value-add multifamily deals and how you pitch the benefits of bill to rent and how it's different from multifamily.

[00:11:52] Ryan Watts: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a great question. Yeah. What we're trying to do is really give our residents the best of both worlds between a suburban rental home and the amenities of a class in a multifamily community. And on the amenity side, we've got.large clubhouse, resort style pool, 24 hour fitness center, and a very well equipped gym. We've got dog parks, green spaces, all of our communities are gated, we have on site maintenance, we have on site leasing, but then each of our residents has a home. The two and three bedrooms are always unattached, sometimes the one bedrooms are attached. Each home has their own private yard. So when our residents walk into the home, it really lives like a home, much more so than an apartment, right? You don't have anybody above you or below you. There's, you don't have the common areas that you have in an apartment. So that's the product we're trying to deliver. And when we manage that ourselves too, we've built a management company. We have a BTR brand called Trullo Homes. So if you Google Trulo Homes, T R U L O, you'll find our,our, Our communities, that's our resident facing brand. and so I think, key differences between that and a value that multi deal is,there's not nearly as much built to rent supply out there. This is a newer product type, right? It's come along in the last five, 10 years. Some markets have seen more of this. Phoenix is an example, probably seen the most.but some markets like a lot of the markets that we've gone to, we've been a first mover in them. And so there's been a certain amount of education we've done in those markets, but ultimately I think some of the benefits versus a value add deal or, you've got stickier tenants.

[00:13:23] Tim Little: They're going to stay two to three times as long as typical apartment tenants and you have a greater ability to push rents. With a product type like this, it is more differentiated than your typical, 30, 40 year old apartment complex. Yeah. And that makes sense. And just to clarify for the audience, this is not a Rent to own kind of scenario. These will be rentals in perpetuity

[00:13:46] Ryan Watts: That's right. Yeah. We're building communities of rental homes and they're, all of them are only for rent. So yeah, usually around 200 homes per community, give or take,is a typical community for us.

[00:14:01] Tim Little: Yeah, and you hit on the other piece just so people can see it in their own mind, too Some of these it sounds like maybe like the one bedrooms Maybe like town townhouse style like they might be connected but the two and three bedroom

[00:14:15] Ryan Watts: Yeah, sometimes we'll be duplex. Sometimes we'll duplex the one bedroom. but yeah, the two and threes are typically unattached. And if we do duplex them, it's just two units together versus a row of duplex domes.

[00:14:29] Tim Little: right and I'm guessing that's probably the reason for the stickiness of the tenants, right? Because they feel like it's their house when they have their own space, it's not connected to anything else But like you said they still get the benefits of those amenities that would only normally be found in like an apartment complex

[00:14:46] Ryan Watts: That's exactly right. Yeah.

 

[00:15:22] Tim Little: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and so the other part that you talked about was the property management And I guess I'm curious.

How does that differ for a complex like this? versus say an apartment complex

[00:15:40] Ryan Watts: Yeah, they're probably, from a management standpoint, there's probably more similarities. I think the resident experience is very different. we're usually going to staff anywhere from three to five people in a community. We can usually scale it down a little bit once we've stabilized the community. and we're done with our lease up. We always have an onsite, onsite maintenance technician, who's handling, work orders and maintenance. And that's a key, key thing for these communities. We take care of everything. We mow the yards, all of the maintenance is taken care of. Which is a big deal for our residents. and then we usually, we're gonna have an onsite property manager and then one to two leasing professionals, depending on if we are in lease up, but we, doing a high volume, we can scale it back if it's stabilized.

[00:16:23] Tim Little: yeah, I could see how that would be a selling point because you know They're doing surveys and more and more people just don't feel like dealing with the maintenance associated with houses they find it very onerous, oh, I gotta cut my own grass Oh my, hot water heater broke what whatever it is. They just don't want to have to deal with that. So for that customer base, this is something that would appeal to them.

[00:16:46] Ryan Watts: Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And we see really our two biggest demographics, are. young professionals transitioning out of apartments that aren't ready to buy a house yet. And then on the other end, we see a lot of empty nesters, folks that have raised a family in a suburban community. They don't want the house anymore. And then they don't want the maintenance either. And so they love that on site maintenance. And we do see other folks in between. We saw some families. We see yeah, single parents, people in transition, all of those things. But, it's those two ends of the barbell that make up a big part of our, customer base with Trullo Homes and, yeah, they really love that experience.

[00:17:25] Tim Little: Yeah. And so you said you guys own true low homes as well, right? So you're essentially vertically integrated in

[00:17:32] Ryan Watts: Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. We think the management piece of this is really important. we've been the markets that we've chosen to go into. We've been a first mover and a fast mover and what we think are strong secondary markets. Each one of those markets has a smattering of third party professional property management companies. And so we said, Hey, look, if we're going to really drive investment performance and create a grat, great, experience for our residents,we probably need to manage these ourselves. we, and we had that debate early on and it's served us well. I'm glad we did because you really. Nobody's going to care as much as you. I certainly saw that jumping all the way back to when I was managing, individual rental properties, I turned those over to a property manager and look, nobody cares as much as the owner. And that's certainly how we feel. And so we have the ability to pull levers, and really optimize performance in a way that I just don't think you can do with a third party management company.

[00:18:26] Tim Little: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And so can you talk about the markets that your properties are in now? Cause I think that, that kind of affects your ability to vertically integrate, right? if you're in mostly one space, it makes it a lot easier. If you're, Spread out geographically. It makes it a little bit harder. So talk to me about where Red River's properties are primarily at.

[00:18:47] Ryan Watts: Yeah, sure. So we've got communities today in Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Bentonville, Arkansas, Kansas City, and Indianapolis. and then the next we have our next deal up is in Ohio, Centerville, Ohio, which is in the Cincinnati Dayton MSA.so we do have a wide geographic footprint, the way that we manage that we've got. we're headquartered in Dallas, but we also have an office in Tulsa. My brother, Steven, whom I mentioned earlier, he's based in Tulsa. So he oversees our team there. Who's more focused on construction and development. And then also our property management business is based there other than the onsite folks, of course, but the management of the property management business is based in Tulsa. and then we obviously have an office down here in Dallas as well. So that gives us good geographic coverage, that region. In the upper Midwest, we've got a development partner who's based in Indianapolis that builds for us up there as well. And that's been a good partnership. They're building for us in Indianapolis, and they're our partner on that deal. So they give us good boots on the ground in that region, and I think that's really helped us be able to execute. In that upper Midwest region, which is not, just a couple hour drive from the other region that I mentioned, which is more Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Kansas city.

[00:20:07] Tim Little: Yeah. And the biggest challenge we've seen is just, with property management in general, is just finding those local folks to be on staff. because it's not the most glamorous job in the world, it's customer facing. And so depending on the tenant base that you have, that can raise the stress level associated with that. And so there can be a level of churn, I think as you move up the ladder, from C to B to, to a, maybe you get more longevity with those positions. but tell me if that's the case, that would be my assumption.

[00:20:43] Ryan Watts: I think that's probably true. We've chosen to focus on, these are class A communities, right? we're usually seeing rents that are 30, sometimes even 40 percent higher than near built or nearby new built class multifamily communities. So I do think it helps to have a higher end property type like that. in terms of attracting and retaining,good property management team.

[00:21:10] Tim Little: Yeah. And so let's get into the investment, a little bit in terms of what it looks like. Cause I think when someone's evaluating, say like a multifamily, they can get a snapshot in time. In terms of the risk associated with it, right? they can see, Hey, in this market, it already has, this, vacancy, whatever the case may be. I think there's that nervousness associated with something that's not built, not leased up. What does that look like in terms of the phases and risks associated? And it, and what phase do investors, Get brought in is it right from day one or is it you know, once building is complete lease up, etc

[00:21:53] Ryan Watts: Yeah. So we're bringing investors in, typically right when we're breaking ground. so prior to breaking ground, we will have. we either be under contract or we will have acquired a piece of land. We've gone through the entitlement process to get permission to build the product type that we want on that site. We will have done design work and architectural work,all the pre-development expenses that we have, to really get to a point where we're ready to break ground on a community, and we'll have a third party. general contractor, typically that will have a GMP contract, a guaranteed max price contract that says, Hey, this community is going to cost X to build. And they guarantee that price. and then, we're going to go out and secure, typically 65 percent loan to bank financing. And then the balance of the capital comes from equity. and you, it's Around 60 million in total capitalization, give or take. And,so you're, we're raising about 20 million of equity

[00:22:52] Tim Little: All right. Yeah, and so it sounds like that. What was the guaranteed max cost? Is that what it

[00:22:55] Ryan Watts: guarantee max price. Yeah,

[00:22:57] Tim Little: Guaranteed max price, you know that sounds like it mitigates the risk to some extent for you just in terms of cost overruns Etc

[00:23:05] Ryan Watts: it does. Yeah. It does very much so mitigate cost overrun risk and, timeline risk there's,liquidated damages associated with, being, if you're delayed for reasons other than, whether, or force majeure or the events out of your control, things like that. But,Yeah, it really does help reduce risk. I think another important risk mitigation point is,We're putting 65 percent loan to cost bank debt on this. We're typically working with large regional banks. We're usually personally guaranteeing those, the partners of Red River, to get the best and most attractive bank terms. and so that's a conservative debt structure. usually a three year construction period that flips over to A two year mini perm, with a 30 year am. and so we, we think that gives us, good, as very conservative debt, but, and levered up as high as we would want to go, to really optimize, investment performance. So we're not forced to sell right away. If we think we want to hold a little longer and we can realize more value by doing that and, and growing rents for a little bit longer. we have that option. so we think that's important.

[00:24:13] Tim Little: Yeah, it sounds like you're not levered. It's certainly is as high as some deals are

[00:24:18] Ryan Watts: Yeah.

[00:24:18] Tim Little: some investors feel better because they don't want that risk. I think the other risk piece that you know, if I was an investor i'd be concerned about is the lease up and so how are you able to show that demand signal is there for whatever market that you're building in

[00:24:34] Ryan Watts: Yeah. Yeah. we're always getting third party market studies that give us good data around, Hey, what are the projected rents and what do we think the absorption rate will be. And so far we've out, we've outperformed our projections on that front. and so the key for us is, we want to find it. We've got a whole list of criteria that we look at when we think about site selection, but it comes down to, what are the median incomes in an area? What is job growth, population growth?we're looking at school districts. We want to look closely at, hey, proximity to the job centers and finding, really good locations, for these communities. What does income growth look like? home values in a given zip code. and we've done, look, we've done five of these already. So we have a lot of data about what, what has worked well and about lease up. And so it,once we find sites and we see, okay, Hey, this is correlating, we're lined up, we're outpacing that kind of typically we're looking at a kind of what's the national benchmark for those numbers. And when we're looking to outperform that. I think that gives us a lot of confidence in, in, in lease up. We've really not had issues there. I think the market has been very receptive to this product.

[00:25:51] Tim Little: Yeah, and that makes sense and I'm thinking about it, you know in my head now On the apartment side, we'd be looking at what inventory is coming online. there's a 200 unit coming online here and here You know in whatever, market we're considering and so we're looking at that to say hey that's gonna You know reduce demand because there's so much available, etc now with this unique asset i'd be thinking you would Be looking at like housing starts like regular homes being built or is it a combination? of rental generically as in like apartments and Rental houses. How is that? How do you guys look at that data? What are the best apples to figure out? How much inventory is competing with your product?

[00:26:38] Ryan Watts: Yeah. we're going to analyze the inventory too. And what are new starts and what are VTR projects in the pipeline? I think for us historically here. we have, we've been a first mover or a fast mover in these markets. So they're really, you haven't had to worry about a lot of supply coming online, right? we're typically the only game in town, when it comes to this specific kind of cottage style, horizontal multifamily style community, that's amenitized in the way that I shared earlier. Now we'll continue to look at it and as this market develops and gets steeper, we'll watch that more closely, but the supply side has been a little bit less of an issue and new home supply. Look, there's not a lot of newly built rental home communities, in the markets that we're in and the housing stock now, a lot of these communities that we're in, we're, we're it's four or 500,000 to buy a new house. And if you look at our chunk rents, we're usually around 2000 a month, maybe a little more in some markets and the median price of a home in the U S right now is about 2, 900 a month. and that doesn't include maintenance costs, property taxes, insurance, all the carrying costs associated with owning a home. we're providing a pretty good value proposition for our residents.

[00:27:58] Tim Little: Yeah, and just looking into my crystal ball, which is usually pretty cloudy, but I imagine that's not going to change a whole lot unless rates come down dramatically, because it looks like the prices of housing ironically hasn't dropped, even though sales have dropped a little bit. so we're like this weird place in the regular housing market. and as long as rates stay, you know where they are. It's still harder for a lot of people to come up with the down payments and the mortgage payment that they're going to make if they do get a house, and everything else. So I agree. All right, we do need to transition to the turbo round. So now I am going to ask you three questions that I ask every guest on the show. I just ask you for a quick, honest answer.

[00:28:48] Ryan Watts: sure. Fire away.

[00:28:51] Tim Little: All right. First one. What is one red flag? Every investor should look out for.

[00:28:57] Ryan Watts: I think you've got to look at people's track records and see, look to see how they have been successful previously? What, what does that track record really look like and dig into that? Because ultimately you're doing business with people and you're in, you need to be able to trust people. And you need to be able to see that they've performed previously. And, so to me, a track record is very important. and almost number one. And if, and then, number two, you just, you want to do business with people you feel like you trust.

[00:29:27] Tim Little: Yep. Absolutely. All right. Second one. What is a myth about this business that you would like to set straight?

[00:29:34] Ryan Watts: I think For built to rent specifically, a lot of individual investors just haven't gotten to see these opportunities largely because of the scale of capital. you touched on value add earlier, you can buy, or you can,capitalize smaller value add deals, but typically we'll find their way to more of an individual investor or more of a retail investor audience. We were excited about bringing this opportunity to folks that haven't seen it before. And I think we're trying to dispel the myth that, Hey, individual investors can't, invest and build around,

[00:30:06] Tim Little: Awesome. And last question. What does success look like to you?

[00:30:11] Ryan Watts: success for me personally is just,I've got a family. I've been married 17 years. I have two boys who are 13 and 10. And,I want to be a good father, a good husband, just, I want to live in line with my kind of my. Values and,so ultimately that's what success looks like to me. People's relationships are the most important thing. I love business and obviously you're in business. You want to win, you want to be successful. I want to do all that too. But,ultimately I think that's how I measure success.

[00:30:41] Tim Little: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I'm a girl's dad. I got two that are six and nine. So a little bit younger, still got my hands full, but,not looking forward to the teenage years, but as you said, of course we all want to be successful in business, but, I'm always thinking about the example that I'm setting for them and, hopefully I'm passing on,lessons that they can learn for the long run.

[00:31:04] Ryan Watts: Yeah, absolutely. I can totally relate.

[00:31:06] Tim Little: All right, hey, this has been an awesome conversation Please tell our listeners how they can get a hold of you And if there's anything else that you'd like to share with them,

[00:31:13] Ryan Watts: Hey, thanks Tim. I've enjoyed it as well. you can find us online, just Red River Development. we're easy to connect with through that website. and then I mentioned our resident facing brand is trulohomes.com. That's really more for our communities though. So those are probably the best ways to find us, would be to hit that River development website.

[00:31:33] Tim Little: all right we'll have all that information in the show notes again Thank you for coming on and I look forward to continuing to see you do big things on your journey to real estate millions

[00:31:45] Ryan Watts: Thanks, Tim. Enjoy it.

[00:31:47] Tim Little: All right. Bye


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TIM LITTLE (FOUNDER/ CEO)

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