Journey to Multifamily Millions

Why Land Might be the Key to Unlocking Your Financial Freedom with Mark Podolsky, Ep 121

• Tim • Season 1 • Episode 121

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Welcome to the Journey to Multifamily Millions podcast, where we speak with professionals on property investing!

Mark Podolsky is the author of “Dirt Rich,” the ultimate guide to investing in land and the owner of Frontier Properties, where he has been buying and selling land full-time since 2001. 

Mark discusses how he went from being a burned-out investment banker to becoming a successful full-time land investor. He explains his profitable land-flipping strategy and emphasizes the value of building a volume business with appropriate automation, systems, and procedures. 

In addition, he dispels myths regarding land investing, explains how he manages risks, and discusses his philosophy and personal roadmap to success. Mark provides priceless guidance for anyone interested in the specialized market of raw land investments, including tips on how to get started, pick the ideal property, and deal with competition. He also discusses his path into coaching, highlighting the immense fulfillment he gets from assisting others in achieving financial independence.


Episode Topics

[01:21]  Meet our guest, Mark Podolsky
[06:43] The Land Flipping Model Explained
[13:28] Automating the Land Business
[19:47] Accessing County Information
[20:50] Finding Tax Delinquent Properties
[22:03]  Leveraging Virtual Assistants
[28:52] What is one red flag every investor should look out for?
[29:29] What is a myth about the real estate business?
[31:13] Connecting with Mark 



Notable Quotes

  • "Even if I couldn’t sell the land, it wouldn’t clutter my garage or lose value. It lasts forever, doesn’t need maintenance, and can’t be destroyed." – Mark Podolsky
  • "I outsource due diligence to verify ownership, back taxes, and title before closing." – Mark Podolsky
  • "It’s about stacking different notes to build monthly income, especially when you’re free and clear of the original investment early on." – Tim Little
  • "The biggest risk with hard-to-sell properties is paying the property taxes yourself, but other fees are minimal." – Tim Little
  • "For sourcing and deal flow, it’s about leveraging systems, automations, and outsourcing key tasks like due diligence to stay efficient." – Tim Little
  • "My mission is to help as many people as I can solve their money and time problems, without creating another job for themselves." – Mark Podolsky



👉Connect with  Mark Podolsky



👉 Connect with Tim

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/journey-to-multifamily-millions/id1634643497

[00:00:00] Mark Podolsky: I've sold property on the side of a mountain and I made a mistake in due diligence and it was sold. I've sold property that looked like Chernobyl to me and it sold at the right price. So that's really not the biggest risk. I think there's, the biggest risk is, I think what happens is people create either a job for themselves or they think about it as a, in a sense that, I'm going to test it and then I'm not going to do another deal. I'm not going to buy more property until I sell the property I have. And so what happens is they stop their deal flow and they end up wasting a lot of time And it becomes frustrating for them in that sense. 

[00:01:11] Tim Little: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the journey to multifamily millions. I'm your host, founder and CEO of ZANA Investments, Tim Little. And on today's show, we have with us Mark Podolsky. Mark is the author of Dirt Rich, the ultimate guide to investing in land. And he is the owner of Frontier Properties, where he has been buying and selling land full time since 2001. Mark, welcome to the show.

[00:01:34] Mark Podolsky: Tim Little, thanks so much for having me.

[00:01:35] Tim Little: Yeah, it is great to have you. And so I have to say that land is one of the few assets that we have not covered here on the show. So I'm excited to get into it. But before we do that, please tell us how you got started on your journey and how you got to where you are today. Awesome.

[00:01:54] Mark Podolsky: rewind the tape to 2000, and I was a miserable, micromanaged, 45 minute commute to work and back to being an investment banker specializing in mergers and acquisitions with private equity groups. And Tim, it got so bad for me, I wouldn't get the Sunday blues anticipating Monday coming around and having to go to work. I'd get the Friday blues anticipating the weekend going by really fast. and having to be back at work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy, and he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's buying up raw land, pennies on the dollar, at tax deed auctions. He's flipping them online and making a 300 percent return on his money. I'm looking at companies all day long, and a great company, great, has 15 percent EBITDA margins or free cash flow. The average company is 10%. I'm looking at companies all day long, less than 10%, so of course I don't believe them. So I've got 3 grand saved up for car repairs. I go to New Mexico with them, and I buy up 10 half acre parcels, an average price of 300 each. I flipped them online, and they all sell for an average price of 1, 200 each at work, 300%. So I took all that money and went to another auction in Arizona, which is where I live. And again, this is 2000, and there's no one in the room, and I'm buying up lots of acreage for nothing. I sell all that land, and I made over 90, 000 cash. So I went to my wife, and I said, and she's pregnant, I said, honey, I'm going to quit my job and become a full time land investor. And she said, absolutely not. So I said,okay. So it took 18 months for the land investing income to exceed the investment banking income. And then I quit. And I've been doing it full time ever since. I've done over 6, 500 deals now, I'm counting. And I still absolutely love it.

[00:03:39] Tim Little: So there's a lot to break down there. So basically you had the dream job of any MBA graduate, right? you're an investment banker doing M and a, it sounds the big shot job that, that anyone would want because we're promised, oodles of money. but what we also always hear about that job is how fast people get burnt out. Because,the hours, the pace, working 60, 70 hours, just. Ridiculous, to the point that's why they can't keep talent, right? Most people do it for a couple of years, make good money, hopefully they save and invest some of that money that they're making in those high paying jobs, and then they get out because of, a few of the reasons that you just talked about the micromanaging, the hours, just the straight burnout. So it's interesting that you were looking at deals all day. They were just a different kind of deal, but you knew what value and investment look like. so seeing these returns, it sounds like it probably seemed too good to be true at first. Tell me about what you thought when someone first told you about land and you were like, no, those returns just don't make sense because it was so outside of the scope of what you were used to seeing.

[00:04:56] Mark Podolsky: Yeah, I was really skeptical. And I remember saying, I had three grand saved up for car repairs. I remember thinking, I don't want to lose this money. And I remember having this conversation, and I said to my wife, I'm like, look, let's look at the worst case. The worst case is we own raw land. And even if I can't sell it, I'm not junking up the garage with a bunch of inventory, and I'm, I've got something that I don't have to maintain, I don't have to protect, it lasts forever, it can't be destroyed. I'm like, what if I just borrowed it like my dentist and I got free dentistry for a couple years or what if I got free haircuts for a long time? I'm sure I could do something with it if I can't sell it. And so she's okay, go do it. And so that's how I reverse engineered the risk reward ratio at that time.

[00:05:46] Tim Little: Yeah. And so a lot of it was about taking action, right? you educated yourself clearly on what the risks were and you determined that, even the downside risk wasn't that bad, I guess it goes back to the old adage, right? by land because they're not making any more of it. worst case scenario, you can hold onto it, but let's talk about some of that. What comes along with withholding because you talked about flipping this land. So first tell me about the timelines associated with that. Cause most people are familiar with house flipping and how they want to get it done quick, right? they're either using high interest loans to buy it. and so they want to get rid of it quickly and. You know turn it around to get that cash so that they can do it all over again What kind of time periods what kind of hold are you talking about when you do these the flips of land

[00:06:41] Mark Podolsky: Yeah. Okay. Let me walk you through the model step by step.and that way you'll see it, really from 30, 000 feet. So let's use you as a case study. So Tim, where do you live?

[00:06:53] Tim Little: Tampa?

[00:06:54] Mark Podolsky: Tampa, Florida. Okay. My partner lives in Tampa. Fantastic. Now let's assume that you own five acres of raw land where I live in Arizona. And let's say that you owe $ 200 in back taxes. So you're advertising two important things to me. Number one. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to the raw land. You're in Florida. The property's in Arizona. And number two, you're financially distressed in some weird way because when we don't pay for things like our property taxes, we don't value them in the same way. As a result, the county treasurer keeps sending you notices saying, Tim, if you don't pay your taxes, you're going to lose that property to a tax deed or tax lien investor. So all I'm going to do is look at the comparable sales on your parcel in Arizona. Let's say it's five acres and let's say that the lowest comparable sale is 10, Math. I'm going to then, and I'm looking at the last 12 to 18 months for my comparable sale, I'm going to take that lowest comparable sale of 10, 000, I'm going to divide it by four and that's going to give me what Warren Buffett would call a 300 percent margin of safety. So now I'm going to send you an offer of 2, 500 for your five acre parcel in Arizona. Now you accept it. Why? Because for you, 2, 500 is better than nothing. In reality, 3 to 5 percent of people are going to accept my quote unquote top dollar offer. But now that you've accepted it, I'm going to go through due diligence or in depth research. I'm going to confirm you still own the property. I'm going to make sure that back taxes are only 200. I want to make sure there's been no breaks in the chain of title, no liens or encumbrances. So I have this property due diligence checklist. That I'm going to outsource to my team in Jamaica, and they're connected to an American title company. It costs about 11. Now, if I was investing more than, say, 5, 000, I would close traditionally through a title company. But this is only 2, 500. I'm going to take a little bit of title risk, and let's say that everything checks out. I sent you a check for 2, 300. I sent the treasurer a check for 200. I own it free and clear. So now we're going to answer your question. I'm going to sell this property in 30 days or less, ideally. And I'm gonna make a cashflow like a rental home. So now I'm going to go through my marketing algorithm and I have a built-in best buyer. So Tim, do you know who it is?

[00:09:02] Tim Little: No, I mean I would imagine developers but

[00:09:05] Mark Podolsky: Okay. That's not a bad guess. It's the neighbors. So I'm going to send out neighbor letters saying, Hey, here's your opportunity. Protect your views, protect your privacy, know your neighbor. Oftentimes the neighbors will buy. If they pass, I'll go to my buyers list. The buyer's list passes, I go to a little website you may have heard of. It's called Meta or Facebook. Buy, sell groups in the marketplace. And then I'll go to the lands. Landmoto. com. Land. com. Landandfarm. com. Landsofamerica. com. Landcentury. com. Landflip. com. Landhub. com. These are platforms where people buy and sell raw land. But the secret is in the pricing. So all I'm going to do is ask for a 2, 500 down payment. And then I'm going to ask for, let's say, make it a car payment. Let's say 399 a month and 9 percent interest for the next 60 months. So it's a one time sale. I'm going to get 2, to get my capital out on the down payment. I could go 6 to 10 months out. And now I'm getting 399 a month and 9 percent interest over the next 60 months. Tim, no renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents, and because I'm not dealing with a tenant. I'm exempt from Dodd Frank, RESPA, and the SAFE Act, all this owner's real estate legislation. So then it's a simple game. Can I create enough land notes where my passive income exceeds my fixed expenses and not working because I want to, not because I have to?

[00:10:29] Tim Little: Awesome. Okay. And again, there's a lot to unpack there. How long are those notes that you have on there? you talked about the monthly income, right? Three, say it's three 99 a month. How long at 9%, how long are those loans for on average?

[00:10:43] Mark Podolsky: On average, there are probably about 60 months. We have some notes that are 24 months, we have some notes that are 360 months.

[00:10:51] Tim Little: And is there a prepayment penalty?

[00:10:53] Mark Podolsky: No prepayment penalty.

[00:10:55] Tim Little: Okay. Interesting. Sorry. Just. Just thinking through it. but yeah, that I think that's ideal, right? If you keep, stacking on, different notes and they each have a monthly income, then that's monthly income to you and you're already free and clear of your original investment.if not within that first payment, then certainly within a couple of months, I would expect.

[00:11:15] Mark Podolsky: yeah, so I'm just looking to create a river of nickels.

[00:11:18] Tim Little: Interesting. Okay. And I guess my concerns would be,you're always going to have your problem childs, right? So what if there's these properties that are hard to get rid of? Is the biggest risk there just having to pay the property taxes yourself? Or are there other fees associated with ownership of the land?

[00:11:39] Mark Podolsky: There could be other fees associated with the land. You could have code violations where, if you don't mow the lawn in a certain county, you could get a code violation. But typically speaking, it's going to be property taxes. But to really get to the heart of the question, which is, what happens if you can't sell the land? And it's really to me a moot point in the sense that I've done this over 6, 500 times. I've never been stuck with a piece of raw land because there's a pig for every barn. And as long as you price it correctly, you'll sell that property. I've sold property on the side of a mountain and I made a mistake in due diligence and it sold. I've sold property that looked like Chernobyl to me and it sold at the right price. So that's really not the biggest risk. I think there's,the biggest risk is, I think what happens is people create either a job for themselves or they think about it as a, in a sense that, I'm going to test it and then I'm not going to do another deal. I'm not going to buy more property until I sell the property I have. And so what happens is they stop their deal flow and they end up wasting a lot of time And it becomes frustrating for them in that sense. So in that scenario, I think there's a risk. But I think the biggest risk is not thinking about it in a sense like where they think, Oh, if I do one deal, it's going to move the needle. No, this is a volume business. in the business of buying and selling raw land. And so to be a good business owner, You need systems, you need processes, you need automation, you need team, you need software, and so 90 percent of this business is automated with inexpensive software on the front end, inexpensive software on the back end, called geekpay.io, set and forget it, note collection system, and then you have inexpensive virtual assistants that you can either train yourself, there's actually companies that are pre trained, and you start building a machine that you just need to. Yeah,

[00:13:47] Tim Little: was about to ask you about these systems and processes and in automations. So for your business, what does that look like? Because you already hinted at it a little bit, with the team from Jamaica doing, some of your due diligence. In terms of sourcing though, and finding the deals, having that deal flow. Is that something that you're having more of a hand in? Or are you able to outsource or automate some of that as well?

[00:14:14] Mark Podolsky: I'm at the point. I'm at CEO level. So the machine is just working and I just break things now. So I'll just wake up and say, Hey, what if we did this and everything's working great? And I break something. But the way it would work, let's say you're just starting. So the first question is, there're 3, 007 U.S. counties. Where do I start? And so it's gonna be county research. Okay. And where I would go for my county research is a website like landmoto. com. And I would see, okay, where are the other land investors buying? Tim, imagine you and I are going to go fishing, and we see on one side of the lake there's 10 fish, there's 10 boats, and they're all catching fish. And then on the other side of the lake there's three boats, they're not catching any fish. And we have to decide where we are going to go? We might think, oh, let's go be the fourth boat. There's no competition over there. compared to the 10 boats over here. But that's counterintuitive because we want to go where we definitively know they're catching fish. So we want to be that 11th boat. And so when we start doing our countering research, the main factor is, where do I know definitively deals are being done? And there's a market there. And then the second question is, what can I afford? So based on my budget, where can I buy five to seven parcels of land? So if I have a 50, 000 budget, I know, okay, I can go to this county. I can buy five, 10, 000, five, 10, 000 parcels of land. But if I only have a 5, 000 budget, I need to go and find out where the 1, 000 parcels of land are located in rural America and start there and then start building my bank from that point. And so I think that's really going to be the best starting place for the newbie.

[00:15:52] Tim Little: Okay, and that makes sense. Talk a little bit more about what you just said though, the parcels of land. And if I'm just getting started, Is there, again, say I don't know anything about land other than, what's under my house, what is the minimum or is there a minimum size, a plot that I should be looking for as I'm, Start my research.

[00:16:14] Mark Podolsky: Yeah, there's not really a minimum because we want to make our money on the buy. Okay. So whether it's a postage stamp or thousands of acres, we just want to make our money on the buy. So if we can buy that asset, 25, 30 cents a dollar, we win. There's someone else on the other end of that deal. Even if we had to wholesale it at a hundred percent markup.

[00:16:33] Tim Little: Okay. And then, when it comes to auctions, And again, I think people are familiar with auctions after watching a bunch of HGTV shows and stuff like that. Back in the day when people used to auction houses, site unseen and fix and flip yada, yada. When it comes to land, is there a lot of competition? And i'm sure you're gonna say it depends right on the location, but assuming that you

[00:16:59] Mark Podolsky: there's not a lot of competition because yeah, think about it. There's billions of acres of raw land available. And to your point, if you go on HGTV or the DIY network, You're not ever going to see a show called Flip This Land, the before pictures to Raw Land, the after pictures to Raw Land,

[00:17:16] Tim Little: about the

[00:17:16] Mark Podolsky: couldn't think of a, yeah, you couldn't think of a more boring real estate niche. And you also have to remember, we all need a place to live. Nobody needs a piece of raw land. Now, that being said, 99 percent of what we have in our lives, we don't need, we want. But, ultimately that's how people think about it when they first start thinking about real estate. It's traditional real estate and they get it. This is something where someone could live or somewhere I can store my stuff.

[00:17:46] Tim Little: Yeah, and I guess I don't know. It's always hard for me to understand how people like you said, they're the priorities allowing the taxes to pile up and just not pay those. The idea of losing an entire investment over a couple hundred, couple thousand dollars worth of taxes just is bonkers to me. And so who are

[00:18:10] Mark Podolsky: think about it like this. Yeah. Imagine, I made you an offer 25, 30 cents a dollar for everything in your garage that you're not using. You'd probably be thrilled. They,

[00:18:23] Tim Little: don't know or don't want to be bothered with trying to sell it themselves?

[00:18:27] Mark Podolsky: they don't want to sell it themselves because they don't know how to and imagine going to a realtor and they say, Oh yeah, that's 8, 000 and I'm taking 10 percent and then the realtors won't do anything with it because for the realtor, it's not worth their time. And then for the land seller, they don't know how to do it. They might put a for sale sign out there that no one will see that becomes dilapidated. So that offer. And the fact that, okay, I can take this money and do something else with it versus year after year paying property taxes. It's not like they're losing it. They're getting something for it because they had a dream one day and that dream never materialized. And so we hear time and time again that's why they're selling the property.

[00:19:10] Tim Little: I gotcha. It makes sense. One day they're going to build their second house on the other piece or whatever. in terms of how the auction process works, do they have, do most counties, have websites set up? And if so, what information are they providing you, as a potential bidder before you, you bid on it?

[00:19:32] Mark Podolsky: So it's it's interesting question because I don't go to auctions anymore. Because I don't, I want to get that property before it goes to auction. I don't want to be in a competitive situation because if I go to a competitive situation, I'm buying it for maybe 80, 90 cents on the dollar. So that's no good. But to answer the question, where do we get county information would be a website called NACO. org, N A C O. org, the national county of organization, or I don't know what it means, but NACO. org, right? and that's every county in the United States, and you can get all the information, the treasurer, planning and zoning, assessor information, recorder information, everything you'll need is at that one site, from there.

[00:20:49] Tim Little: And does it? All right. So if you're saying you're not going directly to the auction, are you finding the people that are behind on their taxes and intervening prior to it getting to auction? Is that the play?

[00:21:03] Mark Podolsky: correct, yeah, that's my lowest hanging fruit, and it's public information from the county treasurer who lives out of state and who owes back taxes. But once I'm in a market. I'll go to a website like datatree. com, and you can do forward slash thelandgeek, get a discount. So datatree. thelandgeek, and I can get a list of all the property owners in that specific county. Now once I get that list, I have to scrub that list out of the people that own homes and commercial property, industrial property, and I can do that by using code. So maybe I'll scrub it of the VL vacant land. Now I've got all the vacant land in that county. And then I'll do another scrub. By assessor's, parcel number, or subdivision because I wanna make my pricing per acre. So if I send somebody a price who has 40 acres, the, somebody that has five acres, same price as someone who's 40 acres, that 40 acre person is gonna send back glitter in the mail. So I wanna make sure that I differentiate on those prices and when I send out those offers. ' cause I really wanna hone in. On that three to five percent response rate.

[00:22:03] Tim Little: Yeah. And,you talked about all the different things that you're doing. And in my mind, those are exactly the kind of processes that you can write a clear standard operating procedure for that any good virtual assistant would be able to follow and do all of that for you. Is that right? Okay.

[00:22:23] Mark Podolsky: A hundred percent. Absolutely.

[00:22:25] Tim Little: right. Makes sense. Again, we're getting in the weeds in the process, but I love it because a lot of this, it's just like a little light bulb went off. Cause it reminds me of back when I was listening to CDs on how to invest in, in real estate back in, circa, I don't know, 2005. and it was the same idea just for houses, right? you look up the list, who's behind, call them. Here's an offer you can't refuse. I'm helping you out of a bad situation, and, yeah, going from there, trying to get it before it ever gets to all the other sharks at the auction, which obviously makes sense. All right, so I guess, overcoming objections, right? mental objections. if you're talking to someone and you've gone through this a little bit with me already, but if you're talking to someone who's only invested in real estate in the form of say those single family properties, or maybe they've been invested passively in a multifamily syndication. Is this for them or is this for the person who wants to do it themselves and build out the systems, but they still have to be very involved in it, at least upfront.

[00:23:40] Mark Podolsky: Yeah, I want to help everyone along the economic spectrum. So if you've got lots of time and no money, I'm going to give you this information for free. If you've got a good W 2, and you want a side hustle, I'll do it with you. And if you want, one on one coaching, we can do that for you as well. If you're a credit investor, and you're rich, and you become wealthy, then we have a done for you program as well, and I can talk to them one on one. It depends on somebody's goals, time, capital, skill set, ambition. It's a hard question for me to answer, but I would say that my mission is to help as many people as I can become totally free. Which means that they've solved their money problems and their time problems. And they haven't built another job for themselves.

[00:24:28] Tim Little: Yeah, that's awesome. I like how you broke it down into the different categories. Because then, everyone is able to see themselves in those different categories, wherever they are on that spectrum. and I guess the other thing that I wanted to ask was,again, I started thinking if I was to start doing this right now, do you recommend that people start looking in their backyard first? just because they're more familiar with it. or do you say, Hey, That state you live in or that county you live in, trust me, it's not going to make sense. Go look out in the boondocks over here or how does that look? And are you able to coach them on locations? Cause I, it's hard to be an expert on everything everywhere, right? So what's,

[00:25:10] Mark Podolsky: let's just start, yeah, let's just start philosophically, right? Tim, nobody wakes up and thinks to themselves, Boy, I'd like some raw land in Iowa today. Unless you live in

[00:25:20] Tim Little: in Iowa? 

[00:25:20] Mark Podolsky: we want to get the biggest buyer pull. Let's focus on those sunshine states. Arizona, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, your state, Florida, parts of the Midwest, but let's pick on your county or your state, right? Florida. Now, if I said you start in Tampa, you'd say, Oh, Mark, great. I'll start making offers in Tampa. what do you think? your response rate's going to be for infill lots in Tampa. It's not going to be great, I can tell you right now. Same thing in Phoenix or Scottsdale, because if I've got a piece of raw land in Tampa, I'm going to go to the biggest, baddest land broker in town. I'll sell that thing for 110, 120 cents on the dollar. I'm not getting 30, cents on the dollar. So we want to go to rural areas in Florida. And again, we're going to find those markets. It's on a website like landmoto. com and do their, look, I'm not saying that you can't do different models in Tampa with land, but it's just not my model.

[00:26:24] Tim Little: Sure. No, that makes sense. And that's exactly where I was gonna go with it. Obviously, you know Some markets are gonna be prohibitively expensive and just wouldn't lend themselves to this model So I appreciate you clearing that up

[00:26:38] Mark Podolsky: Right.

[00:26:39] Tim Little: All right. And you alluded to some of the products that you offer, one of which is coaching. And so I wanted to hit on that a little bit. And one of the things that I think about when it comes to coaching is, Hey,when multifamily, for example, right? Like I know a lot about multifamily and, We joke, especially in the military, that if you're 10 percent smarter than everyone else in the room, you're the expert. I know a lot more than most people when it comes to investing in multifamily, but there's, there hasn't, I haven't gotten to that point yet where I feel comfortable coaching and that may be on me, right? because I've heard a lot of coaches say. Hey, if you're not coaching people, then you're doing them a disservice because you're not allowing them to benefit from the knowledge and the experience that you have. So I just wanted to get your perspective on cultural coaching. Like you said, philosophically, was there a point where you thought to yourself that you were comfortable and confident enough to start coaching other people and showing them how they could do this too?

[00:27:45] Mark Podolsky: Yeah. I, it took 11 years for me to feel like I'm an expert and I didn't wake up one day and say, I'm going to coach people. So I'm on vacation. In Northern California with my family and I got a phone call. And this guy, Tory, calls me. And he's on my website. And I think he wants to buy a piece of raw land. But he's Hey, I'm on your website. This is really interesting to me. I'd like you to teach me how to do what you do. And I said, I don't teach people this. He's what if I pay you this? I'm like, oh, interesting. I said, let me think about it. So I go to my wife, I'm like, hey, this guy wants me to teach him the land business. And she's like, why would you do that? Why would you create your own competition? So I said, good point. Let's do some calculating and let's put on our investment banker hats. How big is this market? And so when I did the calculation, and there's billions of acres of raw land available, and then I thought, who are the players? There's no private equity groups. There's no hedge funds, so there's no big money in it. I figured out okay, I can help this guy. No problem. It's not going to hurt my business. And what I discovered was on his first deal, he made 300, 000. It changed his life and the feeling that I got is indescribable. It was so much more gratifying than any deal that I personally have done. And I'm like, this is amazing. And so to free somebody and have, and change the trajectory of someone's life. is why I do it. And I feel way more satisfied when you make money than when I make money. Don't get me wrong, I love my land business. And it supports my family. It helps my family. But to be that pebble in the pond and impact other people, it's the most satisfying thing I've done. And I really feel like I've helped enough people now where I could die in peace. to answer the question then is, number one, do you feel that way? There's a great book called The Second Mountain by David Brooks. And the first mountain is egoic. And we all climb it, right? our parents tell us to get a good education. get a good job. We go and we do what culture says to do. we acquire the things that we think are going to make us happy. So we get the big house, we get the nice cars, we go on the nice vacations. And if we're lucky, we get to the top of that mountain and it feels empty. So then we go to the second mountain and the second mountain is about vacation. It's about your community. It's about your faith and spirituality. It's about your relationships, love, intimacy. And it's a way harder mountain to climb, but it's much more fulfilling. So when you get to that point in your own life where you can say to yourself, I'm an expert in this. I'm not good at this. I'm an expert in this. I've done it long enough. I've gone through many economic cycles and I have road rash. I've lost millions of dollars learning what I've learned. over those years where I could help other people not lose millions of dollars. If you've done that, then I would say, go ahead and be a second mountain person and make it your vocation. If you're just doing it for the money, because you're like, Oh, this is a good revenue source. You're going to get up that mountain and it's going to be empty. And you're going to end up with a community that. You don't like it.

[00:31:12] Tim Little: Yeah, no,

[00:31:13] Mark Podolsky: recommend it.

[00:31:14] Tim Little: I love that. and I agree. I think the loss is the road rash that you talk about. That's one of the aspects that we don't talk about a lot in. In any of these businesses, right? Everyone expects that you have a pristine record. but if you've been doing it long enough, you can't tell me that you haven't made a mistake here or there. I learned from it, hopefully took it, incorporated those lessons, and then moved on. So I think that's a huge piece that a lot of people just gloss over. So I'm glad you mentioned it. All right, that was an awesome section right there, but we do need to move on to the turbo round. So are you ready for that mark?

[00:31:50] Mark Podolsky: I'm ready.

[00:31:51] Tim Little: All right.

[00:31:52] Mark Podolsky: wipe off my brow of sweat.

[00:31:54] Tim Little: Yeah. All right. First question. What is one red flag? Every investor should look out for.

[00:32:01] Mark Podolsky: One red flag every investor should look out for is why am I seeing this deal? When I first started, I remember I met with a mentor and I was going to look at another real estate niche. And this guy had been doing it for 20 years and he's Mark, why would you see that deal? If I had, he's so I would say the red flag would be, why are you seeing that deal? If you're going into that. into an area where there's experts. Now in the land business, it's massive, but I could imagine in other niches where it's way more competitive. Ask yourself, why am I seeing this deal?

[00:32:39] Tim Little: Okay. Awesome. That makes sense. Next question. What is a myth about this business that you would like to set straight?

[00:32:45] Mark Podolsky: It's easy. Yeah, nothing's easy. Anything worth doing isn't easy. There's no get rich quick. This is a simpler real estate model, but it ain't easy. And if your expectation is any business, anything in real estate, any money making thing is going to be easy or get rich quick. That's a myth. It just does not exist.

Even crypto. It just doesn't exist.

[00:33:08] Tim Little: Yeah,

[00:33:08] Mark Podolsky: and it shouldn't exist. write because if it does, the risk is so high that it isn't worth taking. Right. Right.

[00:33:17] Tim Little: yeah, no, it

[00:33:18] Mark Podolsky: wouldn't be satisfying in the end.

[00:33:19] Tim Little: That's, yeah, that's true too. A lot of it is about the journey, right? I agree. And that's one thing I always emphasize, with real estate in general, right? This is not to get rich quick. plan, scheme, whatever word you want. I hate using the word scheme,investing method. It is to get rich over time. cause, and that's why, for me, like the red flag is if someone is saying it's to get rich quick, so run away if they say that, all right, final question, what does success look like to you?

[00:33:50] Mark Podolsky: Okay, do you want the long answer or the short answer?

[00:33:53] Tim Little: We got a few minutes.

[00:33:54] Mark Podolsky: You want the long answer?

[00:33:55] Tim Little: Sure.

[00:33:56] Mark Podolsky: Alright, I'm gonna look it up. Cause I actually wrote this down. And, where is it here? Okay. Here it is. It is 23 things.I know I'm successful when? I don't know. I can work when I want, where I want, and with whom I want. Saturday and Monday are the same days. I have total control of my time and schedule. I only take on projects that fulfill me intellectually and spiritually. I've helped over a thousand people escape subtle economic dependency. I have all the things money can't buy. A fit body, a calm mind, a house full of love. I don't self soothe with distractions like work, social media, and television. When uncomfortable feelings arise, I just feel them. I no longer care what people think. I don't compare myself to others. I'm constantly investing in my self development, mentally, physically, and spiritually, to be the best possible version of myself. I enjoy all my relationships and quickly avoid toxic personal and business relationships. I live by the golden rule, and when I inevitably don't, I quickly make amends. I don't blame, criticize, or judge others harshly. I have compassion for everyone, yet don't let myself be taken advantage of. I have total responsibility for everything, I take total responsibility for everything that happens in my life. I'm generous with a full heart to others, with no expectations of reciprocation. I'm my own best company. Fear doesn't stop me from growing into a better version of myself. I forgive myself and others easily. I don't mind what happens. On my deathbed, I know you're like, this is the craziest, longest answer ever. On my deathbed, I'll be surrounded by my loved ones, and they'll say I was a good ancestor and made a positive difference in their lives and others. My driving motives are no longer money, success, or the approval of others. I just serve. I aspire to live in a constant state of love for life, gratitude, and awe. I don't fight what is, yet have the will to change what I can.

[00:35:39] Tim Little: Alright. I really like that Saturday and Monday are the same days. It just hit me. I'm like, oh. That's deep but like I get it. and I think, listening to your whole list there was a lot of familiar stuff in there. A lot of stuff that's personal to you. But I think what it says to me is that success is not a destination because all of those things that you talked about, it's a constant striving, right? We never expect it. I don't think you expect to just go down and start checking off that list. Yep,done. Okay. I only got a few more things on my success checklist and I'll be there. These are things that you can strive throughout your whole life for. And I think it's really good to have those. Those guardrails, and have them written out, which is something that not a lot of us do. but to have those reminders that you can refer to like you just did anytime you need to, to keep yourself straight, I think is an important lesson that a lot of folks should think about.

[00:36:41] Mark Podolsky: Yeah, I 100 percent agree. I'll never get there, but I will die trying.

[00:36:47] Tim Little: Alright,hey, Mark, this guy got a lot deeper than I expected in a conversation about investing in land, but I'm here for it. So please tell our listeners how they can get a hold of you. And if you have anything else that you'd like to share with them.

[00:37:01] Mark Podolsky: Sure, the best place, I think, to learn more is thelandgeek.com And Tim, I gave you a link where your listeners can get the book Dirt Rich for free, just pay shipping. And, if this model resonates with them, they can learn more and start there.

[00:37:17] Tim Little: Alright, awesome. We will have all that information in the show notes. I appreciate you coming on and look forward to continuing to do big things on your journey. Thanks, Mark.

[00:37:26] Mark Podolsky: Thanks, Tim.

 


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TIM LITTLE (FOUNDER/ CEO)

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